I want to drive things kaput in CM2!!!

[Scipio]

IMO, vehicels - especially tanks - must be able to damage enemy units by driving over them. In CMBO I can drive a tanks into a Kübelwagen without effect for the car, that's very unrealistic. Same for guns. Usually tanks should also damage and/or cause moral loss on infantry units - at least when the infantery is pinned or unmovable.

I also wonder why artillery has no effect on barbed wire & minefields, and why infantry can't destroy barbed wire - or can they?

[Kingfish]

Well I tried searching to point you to a recent thread, but had no luck getting it to work, so I'll tell you what I know.

Regarding vehicle damage from collisions, although it would make sense to include it, you first must have some sort of collision avoidance coded into the game. Otherwise you will end up damaging your own vehicles trying to move a column down a road.

[Panzer Leader]

There was one guy in that recent thread that all he wanted to do was ram with his tanks. I can't remember what all he said but maybe he'll show up here. It was pretty funny.

[FriendlyFire]

In one of my first CMBO games I was using a paved road behind my lines to shuttle units. A Sherman was going one way, and a jeep with a company HQ in it was going the other. Both had a good head start, so the Sherman was doing ~30mph and the jeep was doing ~60mph. And this was before I had learned to micromanage waypoints, so yes, they were both barrelling down the middle of the road. There I was, down at viewpoint 2 enjoying the ride with the company HQ, and here comes this Sherman... here comes this... Sherman... oh ****** <WHAM>.

After my heart had got back into place, and I had watched them placidly do that little "oh, after you - no, after YOU" dance to get around each other, I thanked my lucky stars that CMBO hadn't modelled collision damage

[Scipio]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

... you first must have some sort of collision avoidance coded into the game. Otherwise you will end up damaging your own vehicles trying to move a column down a road.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that's another anoying point in CM. The simpliest solution would be the use of abstraction.

An infantery unit can run 'through' a tank, cause the tank isn't programmed as obstacle for infantry - they are not a solid unit, they just run around it. So, why not program that friendly vehicels are not an obstacle for other own vehicels? In game abstractions: it looks like the unit drive through another unit, but in 'reality' the avoid each other. Would solve a lot of problems.

[KMHPaladin]

Also... I know that most people don't play at the "Realistic" scale but instead go up to the "+2" level (actually it's the default ) so it may look like they're colliding but in reality they may well not be.

[Panzer_Meyer]

I keep bringing this topic up also. I am strongly FOR collison damage to be modelled!!

There are many pictures from the eastern front where tanks rammed each other or ran over smnaller vehicles.

In fact there was a incident where a tank driver completly wiped out a German supply collumn with his T-34. He got a high award for this.

Anyway, all I want is this to be modelled in the game. Maybe friendly units would be imune to damaging each other if they collided.

Jusy a though and a hope!

[rleete]

I can just see the CM2 gamey topic now. "Looks like he was trying to play bumper cars" It may have been done, but i'd hate to see it in play.

[c3k]

I'd like to see it.

Why can't a tank crush machine gun? Drive over it, reverse, repeat as necessary. If you don't kill the crew, at least their weapon is trashed.

Ken

[Panzer_Meyer]

I don't think this will get gamey.

And even if it does I don't consider this gamey. I don't think the crew of the tanks that rammed other vehicles though of it as "gamey". And I am sure the people on the recieving end of a tank crushing their machine guns, trucks and other equipment as "gamey".

It's more like, what actually happened and scary as hell, in a way "oh SH*T, a F*cking tank is running our trucks over and our 50mm guns, CRAP!!!"

So I think it should be implimented in the game. It depends on the style of play, and if you don't like the way your opponents is playing, than it's up to you if you want to play with him or not.

I think this will not become a problem, since if a tank charges your tank in an attempt to hit it. It will risk being blown apart before reaching your tank.

Also, in the procces of running over equipment, maybe larger equipment like, guns or small vehicles, there is a chance of the tank throwing a track (IMOBOLIZED). So there will be a risk in attempting to run things over!

This will balance itself out.

[ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Rommel22 ]

[lcm1947]

I think it would be very interesting to be able to run stuff over myself but don't know if we'll get it in CM2. I imagine it's realistic. I'd run a gun or infantry over if I was in a tank, plus it would add something to the game.

[Splinty]

When I was in the Army we had a family day that was held in the motor pool. One of the contests was, for $5.oo US you could take a shot at running over a junk car with a M113 APC. Now you would think that this would be easy,but it wasn't,most of the contestants (myself included)just ended up pushing the car around the contest area. I think that the track width and size of a M113 is comparable to that of a Sherman and most vehicals it collided with would just jam into the soil and become immovable without spending alot of time finding a fulcrum point to knock it over with. :cool:

[Jarmo]

I'd love to see the collisions.

I really don't think it'd be too effective way of fighting the enemy anyway.

Infantry could simply step aside and blow you with a faust or something.

But if I'm cruising along in a King Tiger, and smash into a Jeep

it really spoils the mood when my tank stops cold right there.

The problem here is, that we'd see a whole lot of suicide

charges with gun damaged tanks.

But IMHO, the benefits outweight the gamey factor.

[Scipio]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Splinty:

When I was in the Army we had a family day that was held in the motor pool. One of the contests was, for $5.oo US you could take a shot at running over a junk car with a M113 APC. Now you would think that this would be easy,but it wasn't,most of the contestants (myself included)just ended up pushing the car around the contest area. I think that the track width and size of a M113 is comparable to that of a Sherman and most vehicals it collided with would just jam into the soil and become immovable without spending alot of time finding a fulcrum point to knock it over with. :cool:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The weight of the M113 is more compareable to an halftrack. Generally, I don't meant it literal when I said drive over a car. I'm pretty sure every car would be already knocked out when I just ram it with a tank, halftrack or only with a heavy truck.

[The Commissar]

In a cop-chase program on Fox I saw an M1A1 run over half a dozen cars, ranging from cadilacs to Volkswagen beetles and crush them like one would crush an empty soda can.

Of course, the M1's weight is comparable only to the German super-heavies of WW2. Still I imagine if a tank with even half the weight of an Abrams can still do a comendable job of crushing things.

Point is, as BTS said over and over again, it would require some engine rewrite or another. It wont be in CM2, 3, or even 4. Maybe for CMII if they feel up to it. I agree it would be a nice feature, but a real b@tch to program.

[Scipio]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar:

Point is, as BTS said over and over again, it would require some engine rewrite or another. It wont be in CM2, 3, or even 4. Maybe for CMII if they feel up to it. I agree it would be a nice feature, but a real b@tch to program.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't care what BTS wants. I'm customer :cool:

Ehm, what is the difference between CM2 and CMII???

[REVS]

I went to a military air show once where a Chinook chopper took a fairly clapped out family wagon up to about 3000 feet then let it go. Not only did the poor thing disintegrate when it hit the ground, but it completely ceased to be a memory. If only there was a crater, but not even that. There was less than nothing left. Beyond zero. Now, that's my idea of total destruction. On a scale of 1 to 10, this was the Jadgpanther next door to the Toyota Corolla scenario. Not gamable, but definitely memorable.

[The Commissar]

Skippio,

CM2 is the one currently in production, dealing with the Ostrfront.

CMII is the full engine rewrite, going into production after CM4 is complete. CMII will have all the whiz-bang features of today's video cards (meaning that by the time CMII comes out, those whiz-bang features will cost you about $40 dollars to afford), more physics effects like this collision thing, and a bunch of other stuff BTS isn't too clear about now. They arent even sure what the damn game will be based on! Rumor is, it's the hypothetical clash between NATO and the USSR.

[Scipio]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar:

Skippio,

CM2 is the one currently in production, dealing with the Ostrfront.

CMII is the full engine rewrite, going into production after CM4 is complete. CMII will have all the whiz-bang features of today's video cards (meaning that by the time CMII comes out, those whiz-bang features will cost you about $40 dollars to afford), more physics effects like this collision thing, and a bunch of other stuff BTS isn't too clear about now. They arent even sure what the damn game will be based on! Rumor is, it's the hypothetical clash between NATO and the USSR.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh - I thought we would have the new (or intensely revised)engine already in CM2? This means, BTS needs only to update the units database!? In this case I want see every damned unit and vehicel from the eastern front, even if there was only a blueprint existing in May 45.

BTW, I won't hear excuses about omiting rare units. We have Jagdtiger in CM, but only 48(!) were produced during WWII.

BTW, where have you found the infos about the future of CM?

[ 04-26-2001: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[Abbott]

Oh - I thought we would have the new (or intensely revised)engine already in CM2? This means, BTS needs only to update the units database!? In this case I want see every damned unit and vehicel from the eastern front, even if there was only a blueprint existing in May 45.

BTW, I won't hear excuses about omiting rare units. We have Jagdtiger in CM, but only 48(!) were produced during WWII-Scipio

-------------

Hmm, maybe its time you started your own game company?

[Schugger]

Oh well, I can live without collisions. I really don't like to enter a firefight after my own tanks steamrolled my groundpounders and my HTs explode in a volcanic eruption when they tried and failed to move in coloumn on a paved road.

[Scipio]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Abbott:

Hmm, maybe its time you started your own game company?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problemo, if you pay the bills

[Splinty]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

[QB]In a cop-chase program on Fox I saw an M1A1 run over half a dozen cars, ranging from cadilacs to Volkswagen beetles and crush them like one would crush an empty soda can.

If we're thinking about the same episode (the one where the guy stole a tank from a N'atl Guard armory and went a rampage),that was an M60A3.Weighs about 10 or 15 tons less than an Abrams.

[The Commissar]

Splinty,

I cant remember the episode, since Ive seen it some 2 years ago. This was when I couldnt distinguish a tank from a bucket with a broomstick sticking out. So it could of been an M60A3. All I really remember (besides the way he demolished lots of cars) was that he could not (thankfully!) fire the turret. He ended up getting stuck by attempting to cross over the cement border between lanes on a highway.