fubart Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 The crowd here seems sensible/knowledgable. I'm upgrading from my PII350, 128RAM, 16MB video card w/8gigs & Soundblaster Live. I play CM1 (CM2 eventually) , my son is impatiently awaiting "Med of Honor Allied Assault", "Hidden,Dangerous 2", etc. What should I move up to in order to stay current and game-worthy for a few years? [Please have a little regard for the family savings.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Fubart wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The crowd here seems sensible/knowledgable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Man, whach you smokin? I want some. I'm sure you'll get no less than 55 dozen opinions on the processor, but whatever you get there (PIII obviously, 733's are cheap enough now I believe), make sure you get 256 megs of RAM, the best Vid card, or save money and get a Voodoo 5 5500 (going dirt cheap now), or Nvidia's latest (not dirt cheap). Sound is a personal choice, not really high on my list so I have an SBLive also. Just make sure ya get 4 speakers hooked up to it. If possible though, try and get a state of the art mainboard, Asus or Tyan. That's where a lot of pre-manufacturers save their dough. Micron does a pretty good job in that respect, or at least they did. Haven't checked in a while. Best thing you can do is do your homework, read, read some more, and then compare. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJobu Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I pride myself in this kind of advise. tell me...about how much are u willing to spend and do you need peripherals (mouse, keyboard, joystick, etc) and do U need a monitor - or want a bigger one. If you like you can email me on this to keep it more personal. Just a lending hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubart Posted January 16, 2001 Author Share Posted January 16, 2001 Bruno, Thanks for taking time to reply. I'm wondering why the insistence on 256RAM? My computer literacy is primeval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 The price difference between a mid range and high performance computer is not that great these days. You can go to the Dell site and configure a computer with many options. You will find that each upgrade is not all that expensive, but they can add up as a whole. You can go with a mid range system for about $1,700 or a nearly top of the line system for about $2,500. The difference in the amount you spend basically means an extra year of quality gaming. I try to buy the best I can afford because upgrading later on can actually be more expensive if you consider that you are buying 2 graphics cards, 2 sound cards, 2 hard drives, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Ryan is right. Dell, Micron, a bunch of others all have sites that let you build you own from several options. RAM is the lifeblood of the system. I run 256megs, and I monitor it with some utilities that let me see how much is being used, and let me regain it back if I want. "Regain" it back? Yep, Windows uses memory like an MG42 uses bullets, and likewise it doesn't want to give it back, until you reboot, or use a memory booster. Kick up Explorer, browse a few sites, and watch your System, User, and GDI resources go plummeting also. RAM is how the system stores all of the information necessary to run all of the things it is doing. For example. I ran EAW under a system with 128 megs of RAM, then boosted it to 256. Immediately I noted smoother frame rates, faster interface, less instability. In addition, Windows uses (on my system at work and at home), anywhere from 50 to 70 megs just to run itself up, not even doing anything in particular. Memory is important, very important, and the quality of it is also important. You can go to the computer show and get the cheaper memory from the guys that dig in a bag and pull out some with body oil, dirt, or maybe mustard on it, or buy it from Micron, or Kingston directly. I recommend the latter. The former is cheaper, the latter is not. That's if your upgrading though, otherwise like Ryan said, just go to a site and build one from options, and include 256 megs of RAM, and see what they want for it. I got my system from Micron, and I believe the 256 RAM memory option was a little better there than some others. They all have this or that they are price competitive at, so it depends on how you shop comparatively. My two cents. <bow> "Applause sign" blink, blink, blink duck! ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fubart: Bruno, Thanks for taking time to reply. I'm wondering why the insistence on 256RAM? My computer literacy is primeval.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well considering a 128MB DIMM now is only like $35 or so. Why not add another? PriceWatch.com has 256MB PC-133 SDRAMM chips at around $70. That's what I'm gonna get when I upgrade shortly. [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 01-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>- Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Yeah go out and get a good Abit or Asus motherboard that has room to grow, then you can buy one compoient at a time and your wife won't notice. Check out www.Tomshardware.com and do some reading, will save you money in the long run If you buy smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Tom's Hardware, excellent site! Abit, that was the other one I couldn't think of... ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooktrout Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 "...then you can buy one compoient at a time and your wife won't notice." A good tip...one that I have used many times fubart, You said that you're computer literacy is primieval, so does this mean you only plan on buying a complete system or did you plan on going the motherboard/cpu/RAM pieces separate route? If you're happy with some of the components that you currently have, it may be better/cheaper to go with the upgrade route. I.E. if your harddrive is OK for now and your soundcard is good (which yours is -- a Soundblaster Live) then you could replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM/video for a fair price with all brand name components. A good motherboard is what determines if the computer is upgradeable for the (near) future. One thing about this route, you cannot always upgrade with the same case that your computer is currently in. I bought a good case about 5 years ago and every year or so just upgrade/swap out components when they are the bottleneck in the system. If you decide to buy a complete system, like others said, I would also suggest buying 256 meg RAM. It's the cheapest it has ever been right now. With the slowdown of computer sales there is a lot of overstock. 128 RAM is the minimum and you will go over that sometimes with a couple of programs open and several services running in the system tray (such as antivirus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 CPU: I love Intel CPUs. I'd go with a P3-850 or higher. Abit mobos are very stable, from my experience. Bruno and Maximus are dead-on about the RAM. Go with Micron or Kingston if you can afford it. You can never have enough memory. 256 is where I'd start. Video, I'd go with nVidia GEForce 256 gear. Fast and color is vibrant. Sound: SoundBlaster all the way. I got an X-Gamer EAX 5.1 card for Christmas and I love it. HD: All I've ever used is Western Digital. Never had a crash, and now that I've said that, I'll get a head skip this very night. Get one that spins at 7200 RPM and a 2mb buffer. Monitor: I am partial to Sonys, but the Princetons and Viewsonics aren't bad. I'd go with 17" minimum if you don't already have one. If you don't have a CD burner already, they're sure nice to have. Not that you'll ever need one after buying CM , but as far as joysticks go, Microshaft actually makes a good one in their original Precision Pro. All the above is IMHO. Hope it helps some and doesn't muddy the waters too much. BloodFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I bought some RAM from Crucial.com. Their prices seem pretty good and delivery is 2 days. They have RAM chips for just about every PC there is. You can look up your particular make and model and they will tell you which chips it can take. http://www.crucial.com/index.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 CPU: Althon and Duron are my choices now. I am going for a 1.2GHz Thunderbird which costs roughly US$300 here, supports 133MHz Front Side Bus and with AMD 760 chipset, you can double the bus rate to 266MHz using Double Data Rate RAM, but they are expensive. Currently, mobos with VIA Apollo KT133A supports 133MHz FSB and ATA100. OTOH, Duron 850 is a very good cpu for starter and it is a good o/c. If you insists on getting your computer to do the calc during TCP/IP play, get an AMD! RAM: No doubt a 256MB is the min to get into gaming, more if it is within your budget. Motherboard (mobo): I am a die-hard Asus fans but I read Abit is pretty good. Harddisk: If you are not going SCSI, make sure you get a ATA100 HDD, of course your mobo must support it also. Personally, I like IBM harddisks better. Now a 46GB (yes, not typo) , 7200 rpm, ATA100 costs less than US$200 here. Like RAM, you never get enought HDD. Video: nVidia, major player, so-so FSAA, excellent color, top performer. GeForce MX is cheap but just perform a tag better than GeForce DDR. 2GTS is good but expensive, but here it costs almost the same as a V5-5500. 2Ultra is very expensive but I am not sure if it worth it. BTW, it is rumored that NV20 is around the corner. (next month?) V5 has excellent FSAA, runs UT and Grand Prix Legends likea dream but I am waiting for the price of PCI version to fall. For more detailed treatment, tests, news, etc, I suggest you go to Tom's Harware site: http://www.tomshardware.com/ Of course, you can always get a PowerMac! Don't forget CM runs sweet on Mac too! Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 If you are going to buy pre-built, go to Gateway. Dell is too big, to name-brand, too expensive, although their systems and support are top-notch. If you are going to put it together yourself, go to Anandtech.com and check out their Gaming Rig. The go to PCNut and buy one of their pre-overclocked AMD set-ups. You can get a Abit KT7 RAID MB (very good), AMD Athlon clocked at 1.13 GHz (very, very good), and 256MB Mushkin Rev.3 133MHz RAM (very, very, very good) for $660. That is smoking. And they guarantee the chip, and it is already over-clocked for you. You jsut have to drop it into a case, or let them do that for you. For a HD, you can't go wrong with an ATA-100 IBM drive. 40+Gigs for under $200. For a video card, I am partial to the GeForce, but if you are on a tight budget it is real hard to beat the current prices on the Voodoo 5's. But there is some question about support. In either case, Athlon/Durons are considerably cheaper than their Intel counterparts, and just as fast. <sarcasm mode on, donf flame retardent gear> If you want to get a Mac, Steve Jobs just anounced their brand new systems. They have all sorts of technology that is 2-3 years ahead of anything available in the PC world. Things like 4X AGP, CD-RW drives, and 733 MGHz processors! Wooooheeeee! <end sarcasm mode> Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Jeff, About to agree on every point in PC part, except AMD wins hands down against Intel P3 at the same "clock speed". Moreover, Althon FPU is way faster, and relatively bug-free. Well that translates to how long you have to wait till a turn get resolved. Griffin. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: In either case, Athlon/Durons are considerably cheaper than their Intel counterparts, and just as fast. Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Based on personal experience and reading, I would recommend the best GeForce-chipset video card you can afford. Not only do they have many virtues like high frame rates and excellent image quality, but many games are starting to come out that fully take advantage of onboard T&L (takes a lot of the graphics processing load off your CPU, meaning higher frame rates at higher resolutions and detail settings) and other GeForce features. Plus, since 3dfx is for practical purposes dying, and since the industry knows that, support for the clear market leader (Nvidia) will just increase. Btw, some people will suggest the latest Voodoo cards based on FSAA (full scene anti-aliasing), and for good reason. They often neglect to mention, though, that GeForce cards also support FSAA. Which one has better quality is a subjective matter. ------------------ Don't talk to me about atrocities in war; all war is an atrocity. --Lord Kitchener [This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 01-16-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapGame Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I would disagree with Jeff on the issue of, "Dell is too big, to name-brand, too expensive..." in relation to Gateway. I believe their machines are fairly comparable in performance, but if you price out identically equipped machines on both sites, you will see the Dell is cheaper (not by a lot), and that is before Gateway charges you sales tax on the entire cost of the machine (say 7% of $2,000 pc is $140 tax), whereas Dell charges sales tax only on the service contract portion of your purchase (7% of $99 is under $7). Check this out for yourself. When I was shopping for my first PC, the sales tax issue made the difference. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Interesting, I was not aware of that. I guess the real lesson is that if you are going to buy a completel system, almost all of the mail order guys (and why would you buy direct?) have online configurators. So go see what you can get. If you are going to go that route, I would also suggest checking out Dell re-manufactured computers. You get a several hundred dollar price break, and they have the regular, outstanding Dell service. I bought one of those once and never had a single problem with it. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte99 Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Fubart, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the feeling you're not the sort who wants to build your own machine from the motherboard up. I've had some experience with Dell and I believe you can't go wrong with a mid-range system from them. As folks here have observed, just upgrade to 256 megs of RAM and get the best video card you can afford, such as a GeForce. It's simple. I have a feeling such a system will serve you well for at least 3 years, maybe more. That's better than it used to be, when two years was about all you could expect out of a new gaming PC. And who knows? By then the next generation of consoles may have rendered the concept of a gaming PC obsolete anyway. ------------------ "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engy Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 Another cook jumps in to stir the pot... On the RAM issue, I think one warning might be appropriate right about now: Not all RAM is created equal. As has been mentioned already, Mushkin, Kingston, and Crucial (Micron) are top notch (in my book)--Samsung has also been recommended to me, but I've never looked into it, so I can't vouch for it. However, there is some RAM out there that is just a problem waiting to happen. Compare the prices at Crucial/Kingston/Mushkin (for their "value/standard" RAM), and you will see that they are fairly close. Be wary, then, when you see some shop at 30%-40% below those prices: *some* of it *is* substandard and will give you less reliable performance. In fact, on some sites that sell memory you will see a disclaimer somewhere that their advertised bargain basement RAM is not intended to be partnered with the latest line of Intel/AMD chips. My advice: Stick with big-name RAM (an extra $15 per 128MB right now for Crucial/Kingston/Mushkin over bargain-basement) and you won't regret it. ---oops...sorry Bruno, just reread your post ("RAM with mustard on it") and you've said it already. Oh, well. Edited to apologize to Bruno. [This message has been edited by engy (edited 01-16-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I would say, given your knowlege of PCs, that buying a new system might be the right thing to do for you. But given your current setup, here is what I reccomend: 1) RAM: I will echo the above sentiment: you can never have too much RAM. Now, you can pick up a 128 MB SIMM of PC133 SDRAM for $50 or so off of www.pricewatch.com. 2) Video: The cheap option is a GeForce 2 MX, avaliable for less than $150, off the same website. Brand is pretty immaterial, but avoid eVGA, I have heard bad things about their cards. As I understand it, Hercules Prophets are about the best of the bunch. If you can afford it, go for a GeForce 2 GTS ($$) or Ultra ($$$). 3) Processor: In all likelyhood, your motherboard can take a Celeron 600 or 800mHz. Perfectly adequate chips. If you want to spend a bit more, look into a P3 850 or so. 4) Peripherals: I just got a 19" monitor and they are worth every penny. Decent ones can be had for $300 or so. 5) If you have any local friends with PC knowlege, have them take a look at your system before investing in parts for the upgrade. It may avoid potential pitfalls. ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementalwarre Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: If you want to get a Mac, Steve Jobs just anounced their brand new systems. They have all sorts of technology that is 2-3 years ahead of anything available in the PC world. Things like 4X AGP, CD-RW drives, and 733 MGHz processors! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> what jobs actually announced at january san francisco macworld: - dvd-rw drives for a surprisingly low price - 733 mhz g4 processors with better floating point performance than any intel(-compatible) chip. besides, cpu clock only helps so much. after about 4:1 ratio for cpu:bus speed, cache misses make your faster cpu increasingly less useful - nvidia geforce video cards standard for most minitower macs and optional on low-end minitowers as for 4x agp and 133 mhz system bus - at least with these apple is no longer behind as always, macs cost a premium - or not, depending on how much you value ease of use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Please note that the 'clock speed' is now a myth, it no longer determines how fast a system performs. Additional note, I have tried a number of tcp games between my P2-450 and PB and PB *always* do the calc and have better performance. It is just a little G3-400 w/ 64MB RAM plus a lamely ATI MobileRage 128 (and it is also on a number of Pentium notebooks) where my P2-450 has 128MB RAM, Wide SCSI-2 HDD plus a o/c GeForce DDR. What gives? I hope we don't degenerate into a "PC vs. Mac" flame war! Griffin. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elementalwarre: what jobs actually announced at january san francisco macworld: - dvd-rw drives for a surprisingly low price - 733 mhz g4 processors with better floating point performance than any intel(-compatible) chip. besides, cpu clock only helps so much. after about 4:1 ratio for cpu:bus speed, cache misses make your faster cpu increasingly less useful - nvidia geforce video cards standard for most minitower macs and optional on low-end minitowers as for 4x agp and 133 mhz system bus - at least with these apple is no longer behind as always, macs cost a premium - or not, depending on how much you value ease of use<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: The price difference between a mid range and high performance computer is not that great these days. You can go to the Dell site and configure a computer with many options. You will find that each upgrade is not all that expensive, but they can add up as a whole. You can go with a mid range system for about $1,700 or a nearly top of the line system for about $2,500. The difference in the amount you spend basically means an extra year of quality gaming. I try to buy the best I can afford because upgrading later on can actually be more expensive if you consider that you are buying 2 graphics cards, 2 sound cards, 2 hard drives, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My advice is find a local computer seller/shop and build one through them. You will probably pay half the price for a better machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementalwarre Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 just to try to head off a possible flamefest - i actually started writing unix and dos/windows software before getting into mac software in 1989. i may work at apple, but at home i use and write for windows, linux and macs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts