Clubfoot Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Fred, The reputation of Hasbro on this forum and in the gaming industry in general is a well-earned one. To say it politely, they can be anything but pleasant. It would therefore probably be wise to proceed as Michael Dorosh has advised. People desiring to make or share maps that are conversions of ??? scenarios should simply not mention their trademarked ???. Clubfoot. [This message has been edited by Clubfoot (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Sgt Steiner: Ok, I will check mine out as well, I just hope I dont have to load them all up to find out! On second thought, it might not be all that troubling to do find out which ones are asl scenarios. Ill get crackin! Get that beauty sleep! [This message has been edited by Freak (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmart Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 The problem corporate entity is most likely not Hasbro, but MMP. I was fortunate enough to download the PBEMPack v2 as well as the v2 upgrade (note that neither one has ASL in its title). Even after unzipping, I have retained the original zipped download files for both. If you are interested in having me forward these files to you, please contact me. Unfortunately, I only have these two files, and none of the maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Club, I see...but as long as everyone bows at every move some wannabee masters made, nothing will change. Someone could make a .ru website with ASL scenarios. What will Hasbro do? Trial in russia? I doubt it. They have WINDOWS beer in Minsk... They simply suxx...megacorps like Hasbro nearly made wargames vanish (take a look at SL...better known as SAW 2). And BTW Club....I have every Skorzeny scenario you ever made..hope there will be more ! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------ If it bleeds, we can kill it. [This message has been edited by mscano (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------ If it bleeds, we can kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Originally posted by mscano: AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------ If it bleeds, we can kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Well, this news certainly comes as a surprise. It certainly takes the fun out of it. Guess I'll stick to making original scenarios rather than converting any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Thanx for the Skorzeny plug, Fred! You're OK in KC my friend! (and there will be more, after the DFDR mod is done.) Clubfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Guys, I got a email from Col Klotz about this issue. I won't reveal the contents but basically his demands for school were pressing on him. That seems to have been as responsible as anything that Hasbro/MMP could have done. I did contact MMP about using SL and ASL scenarios for my desert mod. I got a message back that basically I must contact Hasbro. I did and after a week received no answer. Anyone surprised? Mike Dorosh, you mentioned DFDR mod and info about it. Here is some news. Right now I plan to include around 25-30 scenarios for the mod. They range from Morocco across the northern med up to Lebanon and then to Crete, Sciliy, Italy, and finally to Greece. This is taking time, more that I had planned. Then I got to playtest as much as possible but I don't have playtest crew. I am thinking now that the DFDR release date of end of this month will be pushed back to mid next month, this is due mainly to the scenarios. MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Well, if someone else wanted to host the ASL converted stuff, I have a large number of the maps on my hard drive. From my own limited interpretation of copyright law, you cannot, for instance, laser copy ASL maps or scenario cards and sell them. However, I don't see why you can't put up Combat Mission maps on a website, nor do I think there should be any problem with calling it an ASL conversion. To be fair, I would generally credit the artist of the map (Charlie Kibler in most cases, if I'm not mistaken). Perhaps someone out there will know more. Copyright is indeed a pretty grey area, especially as far as the internet goes. If you make an attempt to give credit where credit is due, you should probably be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Mike: I am not intellectual prop lawyer, but I beleive if your Maps/scenarios are "based on" or inspired by (and they are not identical) then it skirts the issue. Assuming the OOB's are different in some way, and some map variation I think it passes muster. ------------------ If frogs had uzi's, snakes woudn't mess with them so much. - Hiram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 I could host some ASL suff on my site...and have a page just for them. [This message has been edited by Sherman (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Originally posted by MikeT: Guys, I got a email from Col Klotz about this issue. I won't reveal the contents but basically his demands for school were pressing on him. That seems to have been as responsible as anything that Hasbro/MMP could have done. I did contact MMP about using SL and ASL scenarios for my desert mod. I got a message back that basically I must contact Hasbro. I did and after a week received no answer. Anyone surprised? Mike Dorosh, you mentioned DFDR mod and info about it. Here is some news. Right now I plan to include around 25-30 scenarios for the mod. They range from Morocco across the northern med up to Lebanon and then to Crete, Sciliy, Italy, and finally to Greece. This is taking time, more that I had planned. Then I got to playtest as much as possible but I don't have playtest crew. I am thinking now that the DFDR release date of end of this month will be pushed back to mid next month, this is due mainly to the scenarios. MikeT Mike, thanks for the update. Go ahead and convert the ASL scenarios. Like I said, the scenarios are not original creations - they are an interpretation of historical events. If you steer clear of mentioning their ASL genesis, you have nothing to worry. You may, as a courtesy, want to mention the name of the gentleman/gentlemen who designed the scenario for ASL. Beyond that, my best guess (and that is all this is) is that you would be okay from a legal standpoint. I would even go so far as to say you probably wouldn't have much trouble by saying "based on a scenario created for the game Advanced Squad Leader by (name of scenario designer)" but I am not a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 There is a possibility for myself to host the ASL scenarios. I do not have the time really, to craete a website for it, but there is a remote possiblilty that I might be able to host them. I am going to look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Originally posted by jd: Mike: I am not intellectual prop lawyer, but I beleive if your Maps/scenarios are "based on" or inspired by (and they are not identical) then it skirts the issue. Assuming the OOB's are different in some way, and some map variation I think it passes muster. Since the two are different formats - ie one is a paper map, another is a 3D graphic - I think you are indeed correct. I don't see why OOBs would have to be different - actually, in ASL, you have LMG counters, in CM you have inherent LMGs, etc., so you pretty much have a different OOB from the outset. As another non-lawyer, I say you have raised excellent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple4Ever Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 I am not intellectual prop lawyer, but I beleive if your Maps/scenarios are "based on" or inspired by (and they are not identical) then it skirts the issue. Assuming the OOB's are different in some way, and some map variation I think it passes muster. I agree... Considering that most ASL scenarios cannot be converted/copied exactly into CM (the main problems being leaders, SSR, and Victory Conditions) maybe this is a moot point, as long as credit is given where credit is due (for the original scenario design). -Jeff ------------------ "The mass of the [Red] army stationed in Western Russia is to be destroyed in bold operations involving deep penetrations by armored spearheads, and the withdrawal of elements capable of combat into the extensive Russian land spaces is to be prevented. By means of rapid pursuit a line is then to be reached from beyond which the Russian air force will no longer be capable of attacking the German home territories." - - - Directive 21 "Fall Barbarossa" [This message has been edited by Purple4Ever (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Would somebody be so kind as to post a link where we could get the mods from if possible. THank YOu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Mike T: Well if Klotz's school pressures ease up down the road, did he say whether or not he'd continue the site at a later date? To bad it's gone...I visited that site at least 3 times a week.... ------------------ Webmaster http://www.trailblazersww2.org http://www.vmfa251.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but... Weren't at least some of those scenarios on the TGN Scenario Depot anyway? This copyright infringement is the biggest bunch of BULL**** I have ever heard! So let me get this straight. No one other than whomever the hell is doing this can't use the term ASL in any of their references? What a bunch of BULL****, that's like copyrighting the word "bull****". Then how in the hell are you supposed to give proper reference to anything based on ASL? To me, this new development sounds awefully illegal in regards to international copyright laws. There should be no illegalities if you properly give credit for the name, etc. If HASBLO thinks different, then they are sadly mistaken and I would think seriously in taking this to court myself individually. As long as you correctly reference the material then there is nothing wrong with using the material. [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Uhh...I think its just because the author of the site is too busy with school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 DP [This message has been edited by Freak (edited 02-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Just a question considering all the bruha, did anyone confirm their had indeed been a CR issue or is it speculation?. Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. February 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Just some friendly advice people. DON'T use scenario names from ASL or mention that your scenario is based on a earlier ASL scenario. Play it safe...Trust me on this... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission and home of the CMMC CMHQ-Annex Host of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 OK, but if it is truly a copyright issue, that would be like BTS doing the same regarding the letters "CM" or "CMBO". So any site that mentioned CM would be illegal. Sounds stupid doesn't it? If this is truly the case, I am hereby copyrighting the word "copyright". Anybody using the word "copyright" must immediately cease using the word under strict penalty of law. If one fails to cease, I shall rain down the ultimate hell of the legal system in getting every last penny you own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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