Taking out Pillboxs!!!

[Stix]

Ok I'm still waiting for the full version of CM and at the moment i am in the middle of a couple of PBEM games with the demo.

How do you take out Pillboxs????

Is artillery totally hopeless???

Are tanks the only way of taking them out if you can't get infantry close enough?

Will Zooks take them out?

When my Arty hits them but the message. "Hit but no Serious damage" comes up does this mean that i have done "Some damage?" and continuall pounding will take them out?

Please help the newbie

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"We don't wanna to die for our country, we wanna make the other bastard die for his" - Patton.

[Wolfcub]

im still waiting for my copy to arrive too but ,i assume that ur playing the vally level if it has pillboxes, right well hit but no serious damage means u hit it but not really any damage ,and for taking them out i have found artilery isnt very good as u need a direct hit and it isnt too acurate u can use flamethrowers but thats if u can ever get them close enough, zooks im not sure about and finaly there are tanks , hope this helps

[Agua]

With what you have available to you in Valley of Trouble, the terrain and unit locations, Tanks are about it. You could try to smoke the pill boxes with some of the arty and advance some infantry up to close assault one of them. If you attempt this method, you'll do well to approach the pillbox from the rear and attack it from the rear door.

[BloodyBucket]

Arty will do it if large enough, the smaller stuff is better used to smoke up the area so you can get your infantry close.

Get close with infantry with demo charges, bazookas or flamethrowers and they will do the trick. Ideal tactic is to come up from behind, of course, where field of fire from pillbox is masked and the box is weakest.

Tanks will do it, and the smaller caliber guns seem to work ok. Stuarts are good for this work, as are AVRE and SP arty units.

Good luck.

[Wilhammer]

Do a search

Essentially, CM models pillboxes as vehicles, so the best way to kill them is direct fire by a tank gun. Sooner or later, a round will hit the slit, and one pillbox is dead.

Barring that, the best way to kill them is get behind them with infantry (preferably Engineers) and slaughter the crew when it abandons it.

Also, like vehicles, bunkers do NOT block LOS, unless you manage to make them burn.

Artillery is ineffective against bunkers.

[Olle Petersson]

Indirect fire is indeed useless against pillboxes. (Even the 14" guns with huge explosives can't touch them...)

This subject has been discussed en masse about six months ago, so do a search and read some older threads on the subject before firing up a new discussion about it.

How to take them out:

- Direct fired HE against the slit.

Works very well in the Demo versions, less effective in the latest full version (it's been more difficult to hit).

- Large calibre direct fire against the rear door.

- Infantry attack from the rear. (Engineers are most effective, but any rifle squad will do.)

- Flame thrower from any direction. (Usually requires a couple of bursts.)

- Spigot mortar (on the Churchill AVRE) from any direction.

Cheers

Olle

[Stix]

Originally posted by Olle Petersson:

- Spigot mortar (on the Churchill AVRE) from any direction.

Cheers

Olle

Thnx guys. Whats this Spigot mortar? and why is it different from normal mortars?

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"We don't wanna to die for our country, we wanna make the other bastard die for his" - Patton.

[CombinedArms]

I don't think you can overemphasize the value of SMOKE against pillboxes. Your artillery won't hurt them with HE (high explosives) so use that artillery (esp. the 81mm mortar) to smoke them out. The pillbox can't move, so can't escape the effect of smoke. Then work around behind it and plug it from the rear.

Avoidance of direct fire lines from the pillbox is also very effective. You don't need smoke if a hill is in the way.

Spoiler******Valley of T******

Valley of TROUBLE*******

In Valley of Trouble, when the pillbox is place on the Allied left, you can use the hill and village in the center to block sight lines and attack wholly on the right and right center. Cut through the town to get to the VL on the left and come up from under the hill to reach it. The pillbox will never be able to hit you. Then you can nail it from the rear with a tank, zook or engineer demo charge. Sometimes I've had the Axis surrender, with a Total allied victory, before I've even had a chance to kill the totally isolated and encircle pillobx

In the demo, at least, where tank fire on pillboxes works better, I've also had luck with a mass tank attack on the pillbox. When your Sherman reinforcement arrive, get all four into position to fire on the pillbox at once. Usually one of them will kill the pillbox before it can kill any Shermans.

Pillboxes are very formidable if attacked head-on, but THEY CAN'T MOVE, so smoke 'em and encircle 'em.

[PeterNZer]

Get all your tanks to shot at it in the same turn and it will probably die. You might loose a tank, maybe two. This is the price you pay. If possible, sneak around them. Somtimes i feel it's more costly than simply the head-on approach and removing them early.

PeterNZ

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- Official owner of the sig files of Dalem, Croda and Joe Shaw -

Der Kessel scenario design group

Combat Vision movies

[MadmaN]

Zooks will take them out if you can get them in front of it and with alot of luck. I was playing a scenario i made myself and a MG concrete pillbox was shooting at one of my tanks, but the tanks gun was damaged. I had some infantry in a house about 150m from the pillbox trying to sneak them through. One of my bazookamen had some free time and with one shot he blew the pillbox to hell, went clean through the slit. Just luck with that I guess.

[kburns24]

That was a nice artillery barrage on my position. I think you scared away a few birds. I look forward to your next move.

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Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half the time. - E.B. White

[Commissar]

I find the AA guns to be decent against pillboxes. Try a nice, rapid-firing 20 or 37mm.

[Terence]

Thing is, ONE pillbox is usually not that hard to beat, unless the terrain is really against you.

The problem lies when a cunning opponent or scenario designer creates a network of pillboxes and other defenses like roadblocks and wire and mines that cover an area so thoroughly that when you maneuver into position to take out one, you make yourself vulnerable to another.

That makes rolling up the defenses and breaching the line a much more difficult proposition. Of course, the same rules apply -- use smoke, use tanks, use AA guns, demo charges, flame throwers and outflank them with infantry.

But watch out for MG pillboxes and AP mines that cover the path that seems so right for your infantry on the way to destroy the 88mm AT pillboxes that are keeping your tanks bottled up, if you catch my drift....

MINDLESS DIGRESSION: If you've ever played chess and marvelled at an opponents interlocking defense of pawns, bishops and knights, while simultaneously losing pieces to his marauding queen, you understand instinctively how tough a good, mutually supporting pillbox defense can be to roll up.

it can be bloody.

[Doberman]

The fact that they're modeled as vehicles means that arty won't supress them either right? I was under the impression that even if artillary was ineffective in destroying pillboxes, the concussive force of a hit or near miss was enough to shake up and supress the occupants for a bit.

D

[Brian Smith]

Stix

SPOILER ALERT

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Your current strategy of smoking my pillbox is not bad, but you still have to get to it, and hope you don't run out of smoke.

When I played the demo I managed to hit the firing slit with a Sherman 75 and knocked it out that way, but it cost me some tanks. The other strategy of covering the pillbox with smoke and working up the allied left flank is pretty good too. The AI is quite susceptible to that one, but human ain't!

Cheers

Smith

[Dan Robertson]

On the Demo, I have usually found the 105 artilery will kill the pill boxes, if left for long enough.

Usually a burst infront of the pillbox will kill it.

Really a 14 inch shell should kill a pill box, I recently read about a cruiser knocking out some casemated guns above sword beach, 14 inch should do the job.

Also their should be 15 inch shells from the RN battle ships and monitors that were off the Normandy coast.

[Stix]

Thnx guys.

I thought that was going to be the answer but i just had to check.

"Keep em blind and get behind" looks to be the best answer.

Hey that would make a good signature

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"We don't wanna to die for our country, we wanna make the other bastard die for his" - Patton.

[Thermopylae]

The wooden ones have a high tendency to die when shelled, but those concrete buggers can take just about anything you can throw at them. Usually The tank-box approach doesn't work so well because there's always at leats one AT gun somewhere waiting to brewup your threatening tank. I find slipping a rifle sqaud or team behind them (they're usually used as anchors in the line, so infantry supporttend sto be sparse) will kill them off nicely and for minimium risk. (if they are supported, well you can afford a half squad more than a tank)

[Juardis]

Originally posted by Wilhammer:

Essentially, CM models pillboxes as vehicles, so the best way to kill them is direct fire by a tank gun. Sooner or later, a round will hit the slit, and one pillbox is dead.

Barring that, the best way to kill them is get behind them with infantry (preferably Engineers) and slaughter the crew when it abandons it.

...

So what you're saying is, like vehicles, you cannot successfully close assault a pillbox to destroy it in 1.12 anymore?

[Guest *Captain Foobar*]

My strategy vs. pillboxes is to avoid them like hell. If you can find another route to advance (vs the AI), by all means take it. You dont have to kill it to neutralize its effects. Just smoke it up, and get your troops beyond its field of fire. At that point, unless you somehow have nothing better to do, just keep moving.

In direct answer to your question, flamethrowers do the trick nicely. Smoke the box, and drive up a flamethrower on the back of a tank.

I have also had a 75mm gun pillbox crew become shocked by small arms fire. (3 squads shooting at it from 75m) Personally, I am not a big fan of squaring off against it with armor, except as a last resort. Much of success in this game is matching up your strengths against your opponents weaknesses. 75mm gun pillboxes are strong vs armor. They arent too effective against a spread out group of infantry. But always use the smoke. It is your friend. And if you are playing against a person, you'd better prep the area with some HE arty as well, because they are sure to have some infantry hidden nearby to fend off close assaults on their precious pillbox.

[Cybeq]

Q: How to kill a pillbox?

A1: If it's an MG pillbox you have no problem. Simply position a buttoned tank (you don't want the MG killing your tank commander do you?) in front of it and fire away. Sooner or later it will die. If you don't have tanks defeat it like you would an AT pillbox. See below.

A2: If it's an AT pillbox you smoke it with whatever you have. Approach it quickly with any unit that packs HE. Once you are behind the pillbox it is very vulnerable. I have killed AT pillboxes with infantry squads, a Greyhound, a Stuart, and a flamethrower. All were effective. All were used at the rear door. You get bonus points for style if you use the flamethrower (at least in my book). As has been noted in a previous post the real problem does not lie in defeating one pillbox but in defeating a wicked matrix of pillboxes with interlocking fields of fire. You can get a feel for this quagmire by playing "Stolburg - Punching a hole" once you get the full version of the game.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Stix:

Whats this Spigot mortar? and why is it different from normal mortars?

It's a short barreled, large calibre mortar.

Fires a huge hollow charge shell at ranges up to 250m.

Cheers

Olle

[Stix]

Thnx guys.

I'm about to take out to MG Pillboxs with flanking shots from my Sherman.

I'll just smoke on the AT pill box till i get around it.

Thnx for all the help guys.

BTW. Those are you Pillboxs Crockett

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"We don't wanna to die for our country, we wanna make the other bastard die for his" - Patton.

[This message has been edited by Stix (edited 04-04-2001).]

[GonzoAttacker]

Spoiler

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I took out all pillboxes and Tank with infantry!! Far left flank.....