M. Bates Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Is this book a real story (or collection of personal experiences). Or is it a fake? If it is a fake, does it really matter and is it a good read anyway? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 If "Forgotten Soldier" isn't real, it should be. It is outstanding. Buy it, enjoy it, and ignore those who claim it isn't "real", they are missing the point. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Yeah, what he said. A very interesting read, though it can get rather repetitive after a while. On an ancilliary point, in most cases the books discussed on this forum are quite availiable at second hand book shops for a fraction of what they cost new. I have got many great titles for less than $5. And you support small businesses instead of bohemoths. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Great book!!! I'm on the last chapter. Also it will get you ready for CM2!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 That book is the most realistic portrayal of a soldier's life I have EVER read. The scenes of battle are so unbelievably true-to-life that they will leave you breathless. Buy it NEW so you can savour it forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 Best war book I've read. Even the US military guy who claims it's a fake, agrees that it's a great read. For the horror of war on the Eastern front it can't be beat. Some details are wrong. So what? Ask me details about the "famous" Private school in England I went to 15 years ago and there would be many details I'd get wrong. I can't remember if the blue blazer I wore as a uniform for 5 years, had a breast pocket on the left or right side. Does that make me a fraud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkus Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 A word about the the rumors about whether or not the book is real. It comes from an historian (sorry, don't remember who) who said there was some mistakes in the book, like Grossdeutschland sleeve insignia on the wrond sleeve, wrong caliber for some weapons, etc. M. Sajer, when told about that, sais plainly that his book was not intended to be an history treaty nor was he sure of his recollection being a totally accurate account, especially on the technical side. As for the wrong geographic location, it is notorious that most german soldiers in Russia rarely knew where they were. He added that the point he wanted to make is to tell what he went throught. I honestly think that in that respect, it is a complete and total success. Plus there were numerous German veterans who were ask about their opinion on the book, and almost all said that they didn't care whether the story was true or not, they said war on the Eastern Front was just like M. Sajer described it. All this to says exactly like everyone else here: get the book. HTH Cheers Tarkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crockett Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 What a coincidence ! Two days ago I opened a thread in this forum,asking people about 2 other books about the Eastern front and someone recommended me Guy Sajer's "Forgotten Soldier " http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=019707 What he did not know is that I read it long ago when I was a teenager in France Guy Sajer's book is maybe not the last word in scholarship,.but if there are some books that I will remember all my life this one is among them...I remember that I read it almost without being able to stop.In school , I was only thinking at the moment I'll we be back home to go on my reading and when I went back home I left the supper on the table and ran to my room to go on reading .It was a long time ago...This evening I ordered it and I am very impatient to discover it again( together with 2 other books about the Eastern front) Do yourself a favor...get it Crockett [ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Crockett ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 See my GD website for a detailed discussion of this: http://grossdeutschland.freehosting.net/sajer.htm I don't think it is anything like an accurate history, even if it is entertaining reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tarkus: Plus there were numerous German veterans who were ask about their opinion on the book, and almost all said that they didn't care whether the story was true or not, they said war on the Eastern Front was just like M. Sajer described it. Tarkus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Which ones? Helmuth Spaeter, mentioned (and pictured) on my web page apparently still doesn't buy it - he wrote the official history of GD (a pretty good read in itself) as well as the official pictorial history (great photos). Spaeter is no mere historian, he won the Knight's Cross as a GD officer in Russia. [ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Dorosh, you're correct that some of the GD veterens said it was fake. Of course, as Nazis with their racial beliefs they would be reluctant to accept that one of their most well known vets was not "pure" German! In Sajer's book he sometimes meets hostility from GD's for his Frenchness in accent and ideas. 2 points that the critics have never fully acknowledged: 1/ If he's lying, why are there no daring tales of his exploits? 2/ The guy spoke limited German. So no wonder he got some details and names wrong. Having lived overseas for many years in different countries, I can assure you that being surrounded by a language and hearing it every day, doesn't automatically mean you'll learn it fluently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 See comments in Wolverine thread. [ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Dorosh, I wasn't trying to make you angry, as I have a great deal of respect for your opinions. Most of the GD's and most other Germans come to that, were pretty sympathetic to the Nazi cause. Sajer included! Most did belief in the "aryan" racial ideas. I thought that was pretty accepted. You have read Spaeter's works, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. Is he now totally anti Nazi? While his political sympathies may or may not have changed, this doesn't mean I dispute the validity of his GD history, which I'm sure is very good. I've read extracts of the GD history and it was good reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Viceroy: Dorosh, I wasn't trying to make you angry, as I have a great deal of respect for your opinions. Most of the GD's and most other Germans come to that, were pretty sympathetic to the Nazi cause. Sajer included! Most did belief in the "aryan" racial ideas. I thought that was pretty accepted. You have read Spaeter's works, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. Is he now totally anti Nazi? While his political sympathies may or may not have changed, this doesn't mean I dispute the validity of his GD history, which I'm sure is very good. I've read extracts of the GD history and it was good reading.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's an interesting question; after 1945 all ardent Nazis suddenly found they hated Hitler and were "only following orders." Kind of hard to wade through the multiple personal agendas; one is best not to try and simply take what the vets say at face value. I am not saying German vets do or don't view Sajer as this or that - simply that no one here has provided a single source or even a name. Rudi Salvermoser, a GD vet who is active at feldgrau.com, didn't appear to have an opinion but I don't think I was brave enough to ask him. I may be wrong, I just don't recall him passing judgement too vocally. Would love to hear other German veterans opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Man Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Regardless of its minor shortcomings, Forgotten Soldier is the best first-person account of the war that I’ve read. It is a book that you just don’t want to finish, yet can’t put down. Savor those last chapters. When CM2 comes out I will pull out the book and read it again. Another good first person account is Company Commander. It’s not nearly as chilling, but it has its moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 I ordered both of those last night. I am looking forward to some good reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarb Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 I've never actually read 'Forgotten Soldier' which really makes me an authority but if you've read 'Heaven and Hell : War Diary of a German Paratrooper' by Martin Poppel and similar books, though they seem to be rare, I think you'll find alot of the supposed inconsistencies in 'Forgotten Soldier' to be quite common. Just to pick one example from the critisism: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Sajer's unit also never seems to have owned unit equipment -- they drive their trucks to the front, then are put on a train and, next thing we know, they are delivering supplies under fire using horse carts? These and so many other things tend to simply make the story fantastic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In Poppel's book this sort of thing seemed common. Also I think you're going to find personal accounts somewhat disjointed and lacking completeness, as you find with Poppel's. Taken in that context they're still worth the read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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