CM2....how's it coming along.......?

[B M Deleted]

Has work been started on CM2 yet? The reason I'm asking is that I just recently have started my studies of the Eastern Front. Although, I would much rather prefer a Pacific Theater, the Eastern Front in Europe seems interesting enough, judging on what I have learned so far.

Nationalities...?

Of Course: Russian and German.

But what about, Italians and Poles?

Another question, will scenarios begin at the start of the invasion of Poland?

[B M Deleted]

Has work been started on CM2 yet? The reason I'm asking is that I just recently have started my studies of the Eastern Front. Although, I would much rather prefer a Pacific Theater, the Eastern Front in Europe seems interesting enough, judging on what I have learned so far.

Nationalities...?

Of Course: Russian and German.

But what about, Italians and Poles?

Another question, will scenarios begin at the start of the invasion of Poland?

[Boris Balaban]

I think they want to finish up CM1 first.

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Boris Balaban

WORK bbalaban@rim.net

HOME b.balaban@home.com

[Boris Balaban]

I think they want to finish up CM1 first.

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Boris Balaban

WORK bbalaban@rim.net

HOME b.balaban@home.com

[David Stone]

Agreed,

But you know that somewhere deep in the darkened bowels of The Battlefront.com Mega-Industrial Complex, Steve sits hunched over a lone computer monitor quietly mummbling to himself, interspersed with disturbing little snickers:

"T34... The first... Yes... Ahhh, yes the first T34... I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!"

sorry I digress

Stoner

[David Stone]

Agreed,

But you know that somewhere deep in the darkened bowels of The Battlefront.com Mega-Industrial Complex, Steve sits hunched over a lone computer monitor quietly mummbling to himself, interspersed with disturbing little snickers:

"T34... The first... Yes... Ahhh, yes the first T34... I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!"

sorry I digress

Stoner

[Grisha]

I wonder what it'll be like with Il-2m3s for air support, and I hope they use the PTAB weapons too. The other thing is both sides will have air support at various times.

My dream: 3 spotters for BM-31s lay in a pre-assault bombardment ... we'll need bigger maps!!!

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Best regards,

Greg Leon Guerrero

[Grisha]

I wonder what it'll be like with Il-2m3s for air support, and I hope they use the PTAB weapons too. The other thing is both sides will have air support at various times.

My dream: 3 spotters for BM-31s lay in a pre-assault bombardment ... we'll need bigger maps!!!

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Best regards,

Greg Leon Guerrero

[Phoenix]

Last I read they are working research for CM2. Lots of that needs to be done before the coding can start.

Italian units? On the East Front?

[Phoenix]

Last I read they are working research for CM2. Lots of that needs to be done before the coding can start.

Italian units? On the East Front?

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Benny Manieri:

Nationalities...?

Of Course: Russian and German.

But what about, Italians and Poles?

Another question, will scenarios begin at the start of the invasion of Poland? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last I heard it was Russians, Germans, and Finns. Last I heard, it was Barbarossa and beyond (41-45). Last I heard, background work has started (i.e., research), but no coding work since only one programmer and he's finishing CM1.

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Jeff Abbott

[This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 01-05-2001).]

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Benny Manieri:

Nationalities...?

Of Course: Russian and German.

But what about, Italians and Poles?

Another question, will scenarios begin at the start of the invasion of Poland? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last I heard it was Russians, Germans, and Finns. Last I heard, it was Barbarossa and beyond (41-45). Last I heard, background work has started (i.e., research), but no coding work since only one programmer and he's finishing CM1.

------------------

Jeff Abbott

[This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 01-05-2001).]

[Flipper]

I agree this thing need's titanic maps and a

campaign that goes on an on an on not dynamic

where you can change the couse of history of course but literally fight your way through the war an achive promotion's...demotions..i.e taking to many losses not achieving objective's..but i'm probably asking too much.

[Flipper]

I agree this thing need's titanic maps and a

campaign that goes on an on an on not dynamic

where you can change the couse of history of course but literally fight your way through the war an achive promotion's...demotions..i.e taking to many losses not achieving objective's..but i'm probably asking too much.

[Medieval]

I can't wait for CM2, Eastern Front, etc. IMO, Steve and Battlefront should approach the expansion of the game much like Hasbro's Advanced Squad Leader.. in modules or scenario packs. Create the entire WWII Order of Battle and provide terrain for all theaters, including PTO and North Africa. There is plenty of material, plenty of scenarios/operations to design. Just take your time and get it done right.

I'd LOVE to see an early war module on the western front... French H39s and B1-bs tearing up Pz Is and IIs.

Medieval

[Medieval]

I can't wait for CM2, Eastern Front, etc. IMO, Steve and Battlefront should approach the expansion of the game much like Hasbro's Advanced Squad Leader.. in modules or scenario packs. Create the entire WWII Order of Battle and provide terrain for all theaters, including PTO and North Africa. There is plenty of material, plenty of scenarios/operations to design. Just take your time and get it done right.

I'd LOVE to see an early war module on the western front... French H39s and B1-bs tearing up Pz Is and IIs.

Medieval

[Doug Beman]

flip, the issue of "really long campaigns with promotions etc" has been around a long time. You can do a SEARCH, which will reveal a list of posts an arm long. I'd suggest reading some of them, as there's lots of good info there.

To sum up: BTS has stated, emphatically, that this kind of campaign will not be in CM or 2. The reason is that very few combat units had even approximately the same composition from one month to the next, making a "track the individual soldiers" almost worthless.

Look at the average CM battle (at least from my POV). Say the side that wins suffers anywhere from 15-25% casualties. The dead ones, say 20-35% of the total casualty number, are out of the unit (duh) and the really badly wounded ones, say another 20%, are also out. So, each battle, about 10% of the victor's force is out of the unit. That means that the unit will experience total turnover (all personnel will be different) about once a year.

Now, since most combat units don't always win, and even the winners often get mauled quite badly, a combat unit will probably be 100% turn-over in 6 months.

Look at the US fighting in the Hürtgen Forest in late WW2; a couple of units suffered something like 70% turnover in just a month or two of combat.

For this reason, as well as others (eg: a full-war campaign would delay the release of CM2 by 6 mos, possibly a year) BTS has decided that CM will remain a tactical-level command game, with the maximum time-line for any combat of a few days.

DjB

[Doug Beman]

flip, the issue of "really long campaigns with promotions etc" has been around a long time. You can do a SEARCH, which will reveal a list of posts an arm long. I'd suggest reading some of them, as there's lots of good info there.

To sum up: BTS has stated, emphatically, that this kind of campaign will not be in CM or 2. The reason is that very few combat units had even approximately the same composition from one month to the next, making a "track the individual soldiers" almost worthless.

Look at the average CM battle (at least from my POV). Say the side that wins suffers anywhere from 15-25% casualties. The dead ones, say 20-35% of the total casualty number, are out of the unit (duh) and the really badly wounded ones, say another 20%, are also out. So, each battle, about 10% of the victor's force is out of the unit. That means that the unit will experience total turnover (all personnel will be different) about once a year.

Now, since most combat units don't always win, and even the winners often get mauled quite badly, a combat unit will probably be 100% turn-over in 6 months.

Look at the US fighting in the Hürtgen Forest in late WW2; a couple of units suffered something like 70% turnover in just a month or two of combat.

For this reason, as well as others (eg: a full-war campaign would delay the release of CM2 by 6 mos, possibly a year) BTS has decided that CM will remain a tactical-level command game, with the maximum time-line for any combat of a few days.

DjB

[Flipper]

I'm not saying keep track of all unit's just one leader team start with say a platoon an try an work your way up to sat battalion or company commander.

[Flipper]

I'm not saying keep track of all unit's just one leader team start with say a platoon an try an work your way up to sat battalion or company commander.

[Phoenix]

So I'd pick a platoon leader and try to get promoted to batallion commander over the war???

Sounds more appropriate for a flight sim where you get promoted after surviving several sorties and shooting down planes. I don't see this playing well in CM.

[Phoenix]

So I'd pick a platoon leader and try to get promoted to batallion commander over the war???

Sounds more appropriate for a flight sim where you get promoted after surviving several sorties and shooting down planes. I don't see this playing well in CM.

[DukeMonty]

Allow me to make a counter argument.

1. Some leaders just kicked butt. Troop turnover or not, if the commangin officer can live, you can have a much more efective unit with an expereinced and winning commander.

2. Think of gameplay. It is engaging and fun when we invest ourselves in the advancement of a unit. Getting a tank commander up to being able to take full advantage of the 7 actions a Panzer is capable of is a great part of Scorched Earth. I know starcraft waned in that stategies became fixed and dexterity began to rule the battlefield. But Warlord Battlecry III was far more replayable (to me) in that I was invested in developing the hero character.

I realize it may make the game very hard to write, but can you imagine having to play your large but inexperienced army against a very few highly expereinced well equiped German Panzer units? Or just having to face the the idealized version of Patton? "Geez I didnt know Sherman's could move that fast?" -gack.

[DukeMonty]

Allow me to make a counter argument.

1. Some leaders just kicked butt. Troop turnover or not, if the commangin officer can live, you can have a much more efective unit with an expereinced and winning commander.

2. Think of gameplay. It is engaging and fun when we invest ourselves in the advancement of a unit. Getting a tank commander up to being able to take full advantage of the 7 actions a Panzer is capable of is a great part of Scorched Earth. I know starcraft waned in that stategies became fixed and dexterity began to rule the battlefield. But Warlord Battlecry III was far more replayable (to me) in that I was invested in developing the hero character.

I realize it may make the game very hard to write, but can you imagine having to play your large but inexperienced army against a very few highly expereinced well equiped German Panzer units? Or just having to face the the idealized version of Patton? "Geez I didnt know Sherman's could move that fast?" -gack.

[Phoenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DukeMonty:

....can you imagine having to play your large but inexperienced army against a very few highly expereinced well equiped German Panzer units?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game already supports this.

I don't want to run this into the ground as it's been discussed ad naseum over the last two years, but BTS has explained their position on the player "adopting units" or something similar. Their position makes sense to me anyway.

For more info on their POV just search with the word "campaign" and the author "Big Time Software". Lots of good discussion on the topic. You may be able to see their point.

Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 01-05-2001).]