Me. 262 Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 I saw something last night on the history channel on tanks and at one point it was Telling about about the Tiger 2 Tank, I'm curious about it and I would like to know If The Tiger 2 Tank it is in Combat Mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maastrictian Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Me. 262: I saw something last night on the history channel on tanks and at one point it was Telling about about the Tiger 2 Tank, I'm curious about it and I would like to know If The Tiger 2 Tank it is in Combat Mission <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yup, its called the King Tiger. --Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 Yes, also known as the Königstiger (King Tiger) or Royal Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 If you're talking about the History Channel last night, that show was RIDDLED with errors. They said the Tiger II came out in '43 in the Russian battles, they nevr mentioned the original Tiger, and they said the Panther came out before the Tiger. Of course they also said that it was the Jeep that won the war. Now don't get me wrong, I like jeeps and all, but come on! Never mentioned the SPW 251 as the definitive infantry vehicle of blitzkrieg, but gave a big long discourse on the kubelwagon, I guess because it was most like the jeep. That show drove me crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Of course they also said that it was the Jeep that won the war. Now don't get me wrong, I like jeeps and all, but come on! That show drove me crazy!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Whaddya mean? Of course the Jeep won the war. Didn't you ever watch that highly accurate TV series called Rat Patrol set in the Western Desert? Those 50 cal. armed Jeeps tore through assorted PSW's, tanks halftracks and generally everything that moved. SHEESH! Talk about poorly informed. Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 The History Channel stopped being serious awhile back. They now sell ridiculous history in order to generate sales of videos, etc. The desire to do questionable history drags the audience to the website for more sales. They have not gone completely off the deep end, its just that the historical integrity from show to show is hit or miss, no consistency. Oh well, if it helps generate more interest in history to the general public, maybe it is a good thing. But, increasingly its version of history is just as bad s Hollywood's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 With regard to the History Channel, I don't get the impression that it produces inferior documentaries as much as it tolerates the showing of poorly-researched "history lite" shows produced by less-professional outfits. I'm not basing this on hard knowledge, but I watch it a lot by default (it's the only TV that remotely interests me a lot of the time) and I put up with it's foibles for that reason. Unfortunately, two truths apply: 1. The bulk of the TV watching public doesn't know and doesn't care about history, let alone military specifics; 2. The media industry is absolutely clueless about things military, when it is not outright hostile about such issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 BTW does anybody have an idea on when the Panther II would have made a debut? I also understand some military museum in Europe has a display of the Panther II. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 The Panther II (IIRC) was only a prototype with one made. The one on display I believe is just the hull with a Tiger 2 porsche turret. My guess would be the Panther 2 would have debuted late August, but everyone knew that it wouldn't be made - no raw material, no workers, no country left. Basically, by the time development ended on the Panther 2, the war was over. I hope someone more informed than me with my educated guesses comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-x87H: BTW does anybody have an idea on when the Panther II would have made a debut? I also understand some military museum in Europe has a display of the Panther II. Gen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Panther II was canceled in May 1943 as it was decided the Panther Ausf D was adequate & could be improved upon w/o interupts in production. 2 factors that influenced this decision were the problems with producing steel rimmed roadwheels needed to supt the II's increased weight & it was found with the addition Schurtzen the Ausf. D was sufficently protected vs 14.5mm AT Rifle ammunition. Had the Schurtzen not worked, the II would have been produced. 2 prototype chassis were completed. No turrets were produced. The US had 1 of the Panther II chassis, fitted with an Ausf. G turret & shipped to Aberdeen, which was later transfered to the Patton museum for restoration & display. Difrences between the Panther Ausf D, & Panther II were weight & armor protection, with the Ausf.D being lighter & the II haveing better armor. Panther D armor thickness,proposed Panther II changes in ( )'s Turret Roof front - 16mm (30mm) Turret Roof rear - 16mm (30mm) Gun mantlet - 100mm (150mm) Turret front - 100mm (120mm) Glacis - 80mm - (100mm) Turret side - 45mm (60mm) Pannier Side - 40mm (60mm) Hull side - 40mm - (60mm) Turret rear - 45mm (60mm) The Panther Ausf F. would have been the next model after the G & was gearing up for production when the war ended. Regards, John Waters [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 As to the original question, the KT is in CM and looks good, but it has this nasty habit of getting knocked out by lucky penetrations against the turret front, which simply never happened in real life! I've tended to give up on most cable TV history. Much of the time the narration is just filler, and the film clips are often thrown together in random pieces. For instance, the narrator is talking about the Bulge while a clip of an early (1940?) PzIV rolls by... followed by a T34 blowing up... followed by an AA battery firing into the night... followed by a shot of Hitler speechifying circa 1938! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 I too caught that show last night. I had it on in the back ground when I was playing WWII Online. (Game rocks!) Anyway.... I noticed that show was riddled with errors also. They talked about the battle in and around Bastogne(sp?) and the line that cracked me was "The Germans attacked Bastogne with hundreds of tanks consisting of the feared Panzer IVs and Tiger 2s" LOL! PzIVs feared? Ha! Also they screwed up the Tigers 2s like someone mentioned above. The show pictures of Panthers and Tigers and mentioned Tiger 2s plus they gave the wrong dates for many things. I remember when the History Channel's war docs, in such a way that, when you did see a war documentary, since they seemed to be rare, they were good. Now there are so many on in one week that you couldn't swing a dead cat and not hit one. Seems to be affecting the quality if you ask me. Jeff [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: jshandorf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: Had the Schurtzen not worked, the II would have been produced. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> John, I've been wondering why the Panther G does not have the Schrurtzen. Did the Russians stop using the 14.5mm AT or something? [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: John, I've been wondering why the Panther G does not have the Schrurtzen. Did the Russians stop using the 14.5mm AT or something? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you mean in game Vanir? as I have photo's of M.A.N. produced Ausf G's with schrurtzen in Jan 1945. One problem was the schrurtzen tended to get ripped off operationaly, so you can see alot of photo's w/o schrurtzen as well with, and the empty mounting brackets. Regards, John Waters [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 Speaking of war documentaries, PBS did a great one on the Blitz, with extensive interviews of the people who were there. A very interesting and moving oral history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 So you say the Gs did have the Schrurtzen? I wonder why BTS left them off in the game. I know the As have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: So you say the Gs did have the Schrurtzen? I wonder why BTS left them off in the game. I know the As have them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes the Ausf.G had schrurtzen, they had to have them to operate in the East. No idea why it's not modeled in CM. Look at some side shots of Ausf G's vanir if they dont have the schrurtzen, look for the mounting rail (it runs down the side hull a thin metal strip) & brackets on the side hull. Regards, John Waters [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: Yes the Ausf.G had schrurtzen, they had to have them to operate in the East. No idea why it's not modeled in CM. Regards, John Waters [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jagdpanthers had them too, but the CM vehicles lack them. I want them put on because I want to make a mod of an airbrushed model I have at home. Unfortunately without the Schurzen there isn't a whole lot of side surface area to play with. It nearly doubles the paintable area on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 Pretty typical... Get an interesting topic going and you can expect it to be hijacked by some grogs who take it kicking and screaming down some dark, boring corridor filled with big german words that refer to "metal skirts". Bah. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: Pretty typical... Get an interesting topic going and you can expect it to be hijacked by some grogs who take it kicking and screaming down some dark, boring corridor filled with big german words that refer to "metal skirts". Bah. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And your point is...? So take it back with some interesting observations of your own! Captivate us! Get us fired up! Grogs will blather on unless you seize their (limited) interest beyond such minutiae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 I hear ya Jeff, I was having a great time going on about that ignorant show on History Channel last night. "I am certain that without the Willy's GP the Allies couldn't have won." What a load of crap! And then they go on to say "No one knows where the name came from, but some think from the Popeye character "Eugene the Jeep". WTF????? How about from <big> G - P</big> Stupid show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: Pretty typical... Get an interesting topic going and you can expect it to be hijacked by some grogs who take it kicking and screaming down some dark, boring corridor filled with big german words that refer to "metal skirts". Bah. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If schurzen is such a big word why is "metal skirts" taking up more space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gunnergoz: And your point is...? So take it back with some interesting observations of your own! Captivate us! Get us fired up! Grogs will blather on unless you seize their (limited) interest beyond such minutiae. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey, I was havin' a groovy time rippin' on History Channel, next thing you know I am picturing Amored Skirts and Panther IIs. WTF?! BTW, PL, I always liked the thought that they named the jeep after that cute little bugger on popeye. "Geep! Geep!" The jeep won the war... yeah right, whatever. Next thing ya know they are gonna tell us the French Resistance made a difference. Shaaaa, right. Only differences the French made in the war were the STDs they passed on to the German troops, and then eventually our soldiers. Smelly bastards. Jeff [ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: jshandorf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: If schurzen is such a big word why is "metal skirts" taking up more space?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you see what I mean people? Please...someone shoot me. Make the bad man stop. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 It seems jshandorf finds cable TV to be a more interesting topic than either the history of German armor development or the French resistance to the Nazi occupation. Socre one for cable TV. As for skirts on Gs, they may have simply been left off as an aid in identifying the vehicles while playing. Cover up that redesigned upper hull side and all Panther types tend to look the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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