mech infantry tactics??

[deejaykaotic]

sorry if this has been discussed extensively before however the search kept timing out...

Anyways I feel pretty comfortable utilizing my tanks and espcially my infantry, ON FOOT. However in those large maps where you have to transport troops in a number of different vehicles I feel akin to a fish out of water. I try to use them but in the end most of them get toasted by some hidden tank or gun. Does anyone have any good advice on or know of any good threads on how to use mech infantry effectively??

[The Commissar]

In one game, when I had some 5000+ points to spend on forces as the attacker, I bought specific "tank rider" forces. I had a full company of Shermans (4 Regulars M4A1's, plus one with 76mm per platoon - I think this is the correct disposition) and bought a platoon of Veteran Rifle men (I was the Americans) for each tank platoon.

Well, when my recon established strong enemy defenses and I was generally sure that he wouldn't have much more left, I rushed in the reserves, which consisted of this company of tanks and their tank riders. Worked quite well, too.

15 Shermans of various sorts racing through my own men and smashing into the enemy positions was quite a spectacle. I lost a couple on the way (and their tank rider squads ran off to cover) but most made it. The Vet tank riders hopped off into the gap made by the tanks and wiped up the shocked and demoralized infantry. Not too shabby. Can't wait to do this with my comrads on the Ostfront.

[Gyrene]

Unless you have to get somewhere in a hurry, I would dismount the infantry and move them well ahead of the HT's to draw out any hidden opponents, then move your HT's to semi-flanking positions to add their MG fire in support of your infanrty, being careful not to wander into another ambush with them.

Once your infantry is engaged by the enemy, you should get a pretty good idead of what the safe approaches for your HT's are, allowing you to bring them up for support, but still staying behind your infantry.

The following tactic for taking out AT guns that you can only approach frontally often works well: (Within 300m or so at the most, unless you have lots of direct MG support farther back)

1) A squad of infantry moves forward until they either spot or are engaged by the AT gun.

2) The other squads move forward in semi-flanking positions (i.e. directly outside the gun's covered arc, where it would require the gun to pivot to engage your new squad) and begin to target the AT gun, meanwhile your HT's move to staging positions just outside of LOS to the gun

3)The AT gun will then either duck for cover or continue to shoot at the original squad, giving you the chance to "Move" (Not "Fast") your flanking squads a bit more

4)If the AT gun pivots to engage one of the new squads, great, begin to rush with the other 2 squads and move your HT's into position to fire their MG's at the gun.

5)If the gun does not pivot, continue to move forward with the flankers and move your HT's just outside LOS of the gun

6)Contimue to target the gun with all squads, but now move your HT's into LOS and begin to fire their MG's at the gun, and at the same time rush your free squads to the gun

*** the HT's should be shooting at the AT gun from widely spaced positions, preferably out of alignment with the original contact squad. ***

7)By now you should have the AT crew pinned and unable to return fire, and soon your squads will be on top of it, taking it out.

This can be done in 2 to 3 turns with practice.

The same platoon & 2 HT's can be used quite a few times in that role before their casualty rate gets too high, remember to try to keep the squads within command radius.

Gyrene

[Peter Panzer]

...pay heed to gyrene, troop - dismount the mech infantry in anticipation of enemy contact when at all possible, otherwise you'll be watching entire platoons being incinerated...

...perhaps a few m8's and m20's in support wouldn't hurt your cause either...

...have fun.

[Guest Babra]

Sheesh. Buy a freakin' Jeep.

But seriously, unless there is some vicious time constraint, 'tis better to walk.

If you absolutely must move mounted (maybe it's an escape scenario or something), rush them individually from cover to cover with a decent spacing between them so they don't collide on the road and come to a fatal stop in LOS of the enemy. But not TOO much spacing so the enemy can pick them off one by one. It's hard.

[Gyrene]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(maybe it's an escape scenario or something) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Banjo music helps, a dixie car horn does too.

Gyrene

[Guest Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene:

Banjo music helps, a dixie car horn does too.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. Man, I'm havin' like the second worst week ever. I needed that...

EDITED because nothing goes right when ya want it to.

[ 06-05-2001: Message edited by: Babra ]

[Warmaker]

There are a few factors to keep in mind to make things more difficult for the attacker. Time and distance to the objective. If this is a short scenario with an important VL deep inside the defender's area, the aforementioned technique of dismounting well before expected engagements will leave you with no time remaining whatsoever. A well planned "defense in depth" will especially see to that. Or then again, he may be waiting with everything around the VL with fodder to act as speedbumps...

Anyhow, with decreased amount of time/turns and a large distance to cross I humbly suggest this: buy for example a cheap infantry platoon (I suggest at only regular exp. level) and cheap reconaissance vehicles like Jeeps & SPW 250/1. Break the infantry platoon into half squads to mount up. Aggressively leapfrog these mounted units and dismount the ones who make it forward to provide cover and spot any defenders (infantry will spot better dismounted) as the rear formation moves up to assume the same procedures ahead. Charging headlong will open unpleasant surprises, unless you are willing to sacrifice alot of men/AFVs for reckless reconaissance.

In addition to these light reconnaisance units, to add firepower bring along a light, inexpensive tank/AFV. For the Americans, the Greyhounds are quite nice but the Stuart IMHO is the perfect support for your recon units. For the Germans, the Pumas are nice (but I have bad luck with them) for a tailored armament/role. Unfortunately, the Germans have no real equivalent to the Stuart and I would be hardpressed to provide even a PzKpfw IV for this support (keep them for the main body).

To conclude my thoughts are definitely not the final word, just a suggestion. The previously stated ideas by others on this thread are quite valid, I'm just bringing up a situation to think about that would be nightmarish to any reconnaisance unit: little time available and a large distance to cross. There's no one right way to deal with this big problem and be ready to see some nasty surprises from any decent defender who knows how to play with his units, terrain, time, and how much to sacrifice each of those assets to win. Quite nasty...

[GenSplatton]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Gyrene has played this game once or twice.

[Guest Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Gyrene has played this game once or twice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like an adaptation of fire and maneuver to me.

[ScoutPL]

Halftracks should be used for what they were designed for, getting soldiers to the battle AREA, not to the battle itself.

In a CM battle the comabt is usually too close for Half Tracks to be useful. They were designed and included in Unit TO&E's to allow infantry to keep up with the tanks during those deep penetrations and exploitations (we're talking 10's of miles here not a few hundred meters), not to give the infantry a ride over the hill into the enemy's kill zone. So use them appropriately.

If you have a reserve infantry force that you plan on using as an exploitation force or a counterattack force then put them in HT's near your friendly board edge, out of sight. When it becomes necessary to commit them, roll the HT's forward through terrain you know is secure and drop them off, out of your enemy's LOS, close to where you want to commit them. HT's are extremely vulnerable because they were designed as transports, not combat vehicles, most of the MG's mounted on them are for an Anti-Air role, not ground support. They can be used to support your infantry if you are certain their vulnerabilites wont get them destroyed, otherwise leave them sitting out of the enemy's LOS and consider their job complete.

[JasonC]

Pull up to the back sides of trees, park behind the house, or stay on your side of a slope. It is not hard to get close to where you want to debus the infantry, as long as debusing the infantry is what you are trying to do, instead of re-enacting the Charge of the Light Brigade. Your infantry, after all, want to go to someplace with cover, not to a place without. The mistake to avoid with them is over aggressiveness, moving into the unknown mounted.

They can provide useful MG support late, after the tank and AT fight has been going on a while. Just stay back out of easy zook/schreck range, ~200 yards will do. You can use them for infantry fire support before that by using "keyhole" deployments. Meaning, if you want to suppress this MG or that squad, find a spot that can see the target but can't be seen by most of the rest of the map, on the enemy's side anyway. Peek around the house or the edge of a clump of trees, roll just barely far enough up a slope, etc.

Also, do not overlook the opportunity they provide to change the axis of your attack relatively late in the game. After many defenders are down or broken, and the fight is focused on a key area, the less numerous defender will often have shifted all available forces to wherever the action is. You can pull a platoon out of action in 2 minutes, and have them clear over on the other side of the map in 5 or less, in those situations.

They are still overpriced in CM for their combat effectiveness, because they are vunerable to any sort of AT weapon or light gun and easily spotted, and lack the lethality of tanks to neutralize such shooters in reply. Scenarios will often give you a whole platoon of them. When buying yourself for QBs, think twice about more than a couple to reposition heavy weapons easily. Usually, another tank will serve you better in the scale of fights in CM, than a couple of 'tracks.

[Andrew H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC:

They are still overpriced in CM for their combat effectiveness, because they are vunerable to any sort of AT weapon or light gun and easily spotted, and lack the lethality of tanks to neutralize such shooters in reply. Scenarios will often give you a whole platoon of them. When buying yourself for QBs, think twice about more than a couple to reposition heavy weapons easily. Usually, another tank will serve you better in the scale of fights in CM, than a couple of 'tracks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Jason is generally right. The only exception would be the Ram, which is not really a track, but more of a hollowed out Sherman, with appropriate armor. It's still vulnerable to enemy AT assets, of course, but if MGs are all you need to worry about, these units are much better than normal HTs.

Of course the US doesn't get them.

[patboivin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Gyrene has played this game once or twice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe it's adapted from that other game I was wondering about in another thread... what is it now? Baldric's Grate? something.

Seriously, good advice Gyrene.

[WWB]

I think that one great use for mechanized infantry that people has been overlooked in this discussion is the use of mech inf on the defensive. There they can play 2 roles, especially in defensive positions with internal lines of communication:

1) Shock reserve: 1 Platoon has the firepower effects of 3 platoons of infantry, with armor advantages. When thrown in it will make a difference and, as Jason points out, it can be thrown in almost anywhere.

2) Bait for the AT trap: Move HTs to a position where they can bail from but you have covered the firing area with your guns or tanks. Encourage him to commit his armor into your combined AT power. A few tanks are definitely worth a halfack or two. Remember to dismount the infantry.

Also, In general, the German HTs are a bit more stoudt armor wised, but have significantly less ammo. The M3A1 models sporting 2 MGs, one a .50 have significant firepower advantages over thier opponents

WWB

[Redwolf]

The M3A1 and M5A1 with two MGs and ammo 250 are great when entering the game late when most infantry units have ammo shortages.

Both Kangaroos are great to transport one valuable unit somewhere (Flamethrower, Spotter, Company HQ for replacement of wiped out platoon HQ), because they are very fast and very thick, they can cross quite some fire.

These units are worth the price, IMHO, but only because the .50cal on the M3A1 and M5A1 is underpriced, making the result nice.