REVS Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 To commemorate the new DVD player, I got 'Saving Private Ryan' out on DVD and actually convinced the significant other that it was a cinematic event worthy of her artistic eye. And she liked it! But I don't have enough knowledge of all those German AFVs which died near the bridge. How authentic were they? The 'Tigers' looked small, and there seemed to be quite a few open-topped assault guns completely out of their depth in the street fighting. Can anyone, in 100 words or less, fill me in on what kind of glitches were made by Private Spielberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 The only comment i heard from people that where actually there!!! is. There is no way you could walk around in the middle of the day in open field without being shot at. Thats just one of the small glitches in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by REVS: The 'Tigers' looked small, and there seemed to be quite a few open-topped assault guns completely out of their depth in the street fighting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Can't comment about the jagdpanzers, but the Tigers were converted T34s, the track and bogies being the giveaway. Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopenfaust2 Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 2nd SS "Das Reich" were no where near spielberg when he was filming the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/pr-art/pr140998.html http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ipmsuk/armoursig.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101: 2nd SS "Das Reich" were no where near spielberg when he was filming the movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would certainly hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: I would certainly hope not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, not entirely accurate. There is an SS re-enactment unit in England that helped out the production by providing extras - I don't know if they were 2nd SS or not, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 P-51s attacking tanks with rockets is a little odd too. I don't believe Rangers ever made a frontal beach assault like the movie shows. They scaled the cliffs of Point Du Hoc instead. There weren't any SS units near the Americans at the time this alledgedly took place. Das Reich arrived 2-3 weeks after the landings. Has anyone figured out what the vehicle the blows up the church tower is? The one that looks like a marder but has a semi covered top. I know some marders had a slightly covered top but none I can find match that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiborhead Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: Has anyone figured out what the vehicle the blows up the church tower is? The one that looks like a marder but has a semi covered top. I know some marders had a slightly covered top but none I can find match that thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, a friend and I were trying to figure out what that thing was. I happened to have a book about german armour at the time which gave top, front, and side views of most all german AFV's. We couldn't find anything to match either. Despite this and other flaws, it's still one of my favs. The movie that is. [ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: tiborhead ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 If you look at the screen with squinty eyes the vehicle that blows up the church tower kinda looks like a Marder of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: P-51s attacking tanks with rockets is a little odd too. I don't believe Rangers ever made a frontal beach assault like the movie shows. They scaled the cliffs of Point Du Hoc instead. There weren't any SS units near the Americans at the time this alledgedly took place. Das Reich arrived 2-3 weeks after the landings. Has anyone figured out what the vehicle the blows up the church tower is? The one that looks like a marder but has a semi covered top. I know some marders had a slightly covered top but none I can find match that thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Rangers did go ashore with the main assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Actually, part of the 2nd Ranger battalion did land on the beaches with the 29th Infantry Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitzkrieg Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: I don't believe Rangers ever made a frontal beach assault like the movie shows. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I doubted this as well so I checked it out in a couple of books. C Company, 2 Ranger Bn did attack Omaha with the 29th. They landed in the 2nd wave, I believe (don't have book handy). As for the assault up the beach to the bunkers, that is pure Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 The Tiger was pretty damn close in terms of looks. I've never seen any Hollywood war movie have a Tiger tank that looked that close to the real thing. It still doesn't look quite right. The Tiger is supposed to be this heavy tank but the one in the movie didn't seem to move right. The best realitic tank I've seen in a movie was "Cross of Iron" with the T-34/85. But then again, I think they really did use a T-34/85s so of course it would be "realistic." The tactics of the SS troops just blew me away. My understanding is that the tactics of infantry-tank cooperation had already been firmly established and what some of those SS troops did seem like rookie mistakes, especially for troops of Das Reich. Tanks moving through an urban environment with the infantry following and not leading was one huge mistake. P-51s tank busters??? Uh, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: P-51s attacking tanks with rockets is a little odd too. I don't believe Rangers ever made a frontal beach assault like the movie shows. They scaled the cliffs of Point Du Hoc instead. There weren't any SS units near the Americans at the time this alledgedly took place. Das Reich arrived 2-3 weeks after the landings. Has anyone figured out what the vehicle the blows up the church tower is? The one that looks like a marder but has a semi covered top. I know some marders had a slightly covered top but none I can find match that thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I didn't see any rockets from the P-51's---I thought the last Tiger was KO'ed from a bomb-drop in the movie. But some P-51's were available to 9th AF in the ground-support role (354th FG), although the P-47's & P-38's for ground support were far more numerous. The P-51's in SPR, however, carry the markings of 78th FG---an 8th AF group which, during the Normany campaign, was still flying P-47's. As noted earlier by Slapdragon, several US ranger companies (between the 2nd & 5th Ranger battalions) did indeed land at the western side of Omaha Beach. The 2nd SS Panzer Division had not yet arrived. But in the same time setting for the fictional Ramelle battle (June 13th?), the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Div. did attempt a counterattack against US troops that had just captured Carentan the day before. So some SS troops had indeed come up. I think this battle of Carentan served as a reference for Spielberg to create the Ramelle battle. And at the very same time setting for the Ramelle battle (June 13th), it was rather the British, instead of the US, that had to contend with Tigers, especially where Wittman's tanks lashed back at a 7th Armored Div. column in Villers-Bocage. (I kinda doubt that Spielberg will do a film of Wittman's engagement at Villers, but if he did, I'd certainly watch it. ) As to the "Marders" with the overhead covers---I wouldn't consider it a far reach for a "field mod" to have a roof welded on for these TD's. I do think that the Marders were being used out of their normal role, though, running through Ramelle in "assault" posture instead of overwatch. I think that using several Stug III's for the Ramelle battle would've been MUCH better. But Spielberg obviously wanted to "impact" the movie audiences with the "Tiger phobia" that many US troops felt during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: I think that using several Stug III's for the Ramelle battle would've been MUCH better. But Spielberg obviously wanted to "impact" the movie audiences with the "Tiger phobia" that many US troops felt during the war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe they *were* Stugs, but all us Americans just assumed they were Tigers? Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Maybe they *were* Stugs, but all us Americans just assumed they were Tigers? Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Or in another way, Ramelle was portrayed as was written in the AAR? OK----duly noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I remember reading a website about the making of the movie when it first came out. The reenactors had several of their own vehicles - including a Marder which was used in filming the Ramelle battle. Perhaps they added a cover to their Marder, and that's what you're seeing in the Ramelle battle scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 That was Tiger. As for the Tiger that goes boom. That pistol that Tom Hanks fired did the trick! Sheesh! I guess I did not look at the German troops enough to see what unit they were from. I did find it a bit odd now that after playing CM that the German troops hid behind the tank. I do not know how German doctrine went but I would imagine they would need troops out in front to take care of the AT threat for the tanks. Also how many Tigers were used in city fighting? I thought that would be the realm of something with a smaller\faster turret. But maybe not. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopenfaust2 Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Doesn't matter anyways about the infantry should be in front of the tank. They all die before they even touch the tank anyway. So if they were in front [(for the movie) which would have been historically correct, they would have been laid out by the 2 .50cals]they would get the same result... ...dead yermans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Spielburg loves the P-51. He has used it in numerous movies. I think he used it because of it's symbolism, rather than total acuracy. Remeber the sceen where they are walking along the crest of the hill? That is a big no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipmonkey25 Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 As for the covered Marders, I was under the impression all the Marder series vehicles were all kind one-of-a-kinds. Since they were all rebuilds of several different base vehicles using one of several aviable guns, they all varied a bit in appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Look here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 The Marders in SPR were converted Hetzers; the Tigers, T34's a la Kelly's Heroes. The one in SPR that gets killed at the end has just been used for set decoration in Band of Brothers; the SS infantry ran about like headless chickens because that was what Mister Spielberg wanted them to do; similarly, all the other cock-ups on the movie were due to the fact that it was JUST a movie... and on movies time is money and there is never enough time. As one of the low-level (low-life? ) technical advisors on SPR and BoB I will quote the phrase we were always told whenever we tried to rectify a glaring mistake - "We're making a movie not a documentary." And that my friends is how Hollywood invented World War Two. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 The Tiger tank is a converted T-34/85. There is a website that talked about this specificially and even had photos of it in various stages of conversion. The open-topped vehicles are probably supposed to be either Marder II's or III's. But they aren't "groggy-enough" accurate to determine which one they are supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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