Hannibal Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Just saw fasa went out of bussines .My local hobby store closed down .Talonsoft and ssi no longer make war games .Is microprose still making sims . I go on sites and see people rip games like sfc2 or operation art of war or fighting steel .I have seen people say if a game is not perfect then they should not release it .Well I am scared that is what is going to happen .I rememeber going to the store and having about 10 game to chose from now it seems a game I want to play comes out every 6 months .i dont want to play doom ,doomw 2 quake .Oh well just had to vent . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Hannibal: Just saw fasa went out of bussines .My local hobby store closed down .Talonsoft and ssi no longer make war games .Is microprose still making sims . I go on sites and see people rip games like sfc2 or operation art of war or fighting steel .I have seen people say if a game is not perfect then they should not release it .Well I am scared that is what is going to happen .I rememeber going to the store and having about 10 game to chose from now it seems a game I want to play comes out every 6 months .i dont want to play doom ,doomw 2 quake .Oh well just had to vent . FASA was mismanaged. It should have stuck to its core and not spent all that money on the VR studio in Chicago. They had not published a Shadowrun game for many years even though there are like a hundred thousand people who wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Saw your post on the Star Fleet Forums. Too bad Taldren and Interplay weren't able to do SFCII up to BTS' level for CM. I really hope that 2.0.0.5 does some good. I also hope Dyna II works someday. And I agree about the death of companies. I fear, in the future, that the only games available will be 1st person shooters and crap of the "Sonic the Hedgehog" ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 SFCII was the first game I've bought since CM when it first came out. Boy am I happy that it crashes out when I try to select "Early" technology. And that the interface is so clunky. Steve & Charles have ruined me for other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Refer to the BTS Manifesto. At least one business won't be failing. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Not so sure about that. The feeling I get is that you get less quality games in the stores, and you simply have to go online to find the good games. Thinking back, well Microprose did the 2 excellent titles "Gunship" and "M1 Tank Platoon" many years ago. Problem was - when they tried to follow them up with for instance M1TP2, I tried them, but saw nothing good except for the graphics. Gameplay itself hadn't evolved *anything at all*. No, nowadays, you hear about such games CM and Steel Beasts online, and you shop it online, from small businesses made up of dedicated enthusiasts. Which I think is good. Sort of... quality over quantity. For those that haven't heard of it, Steel Beasts is a M1A1/Leopard2A4 simulator. Done by Al Delaney with input from real-life tankers. Read about it and download the demo at: http://www.esimgames.com If you thought M1 Tank Platoon (1 and 2) was anywhere near good, take a look at this baby, you will be happily surprised! (And no - I do not work for Esimgames ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 As one of SFC supporters who feels so hurt to see what SFC2 right now, I would have to say that Taldren is not brave and smart enough to go where BTS has gone before -- indie. I am not shoeshining but there are a number of threads on their forum condemning the rush!!! Interplay Marketing department strikes again! If SFC2 comes this year, making everything work as is, it would definitely be a great game it should have been. DynaII is another story since it is the hosting company dropping everything in the last minute...and worse the server was still beta-testing. From what I have read Patch 2.0.0.5 should be good one, not that 2.0.0.4 which was again rushed for Xmas to keep some ppl zip. We shall soon see.... I don't understand but I have not been to Talonsoft's message board for quite a while but from what I have seen is Mr. Norm Koger is still answering questions on TOAW. I am not sure what ripping TOAW is all about. For other wargames, hum, let's see: We still have another indie HPS. John Tyler jumped to HPS and publishes "Panzer Campaigns" series. I am trying to learn the 3rd installment "Karkov '42" and well, it reminds you about "Eastern Front" a lot, but better. The scope is just limited to one area though. OTOH, we have Matrix Games togetehr with 2x3 for all the good old titles updated and new ones in the horizon. Are you waiting for the new "War in Pacific"? Another indie Sharpenal brings us "Steel Beasts" and "Combat Command 2". Well, SSG is still running and you have TAO 2 available to for free download and I have got the "Complete Carriers at War" for my Mac. Don't you know that Schwerpunkt is going to publish a game with scale like "War in Russia" called "Russo-German War '41-'44"? SSI stil does some goodies like anticipated "Harpoon 4". Well, don't forget "Combat Mission 2: Bigger and Badder" is coming shortly in a year's time (have your fingers crossed). So I don't see any reasons why one should feel bored without any wargames. Or I begin to speak like an ad. OTOH, FPS is not necessarily bad games. I am playing "No One Lives Forever". Stylish, funny, great wriitng and very immersive. Games like this together with "System Shock 1 & 2", "Thief 1 & 2", "Dues Ex", etc, are not just mindless shoot'em up games and requires you to think a lot while have a very compelling storylines. Have you tried at least one of these? To prevent any possible devloution to whine and flames, go and enjoy good games then. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 01-26-2001).] [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLord Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I too am getting a bit worried about this situation. The advent of the PS2 and the soon-to-be X-Box are real threats to PC gaming. Take my local EB for example...the PC games area has dwindled to 2 or 3 sections while the console games comprise an entire wall and then some. It is my prediction that soon we will be where we were in 1985. However, while that time saw a low volume of but high quality PC games, now we are faced with low volume and terrible quality in the future. Being a bit optimistic: if more innovative companies come along like BTS (for wargames) and Bioware (for CRPGs), we may be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt.Tom Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Money makes the world go around, there will always be someone out there making PC Games if there are people out there willing to pay for them, what kind and what quality is another story. I would like to think that the companies that make the best games will get the most business but we all know that is not always the case, but I have faith! Now speaking of the good old days, remember when there was only Avalon Hill for games and the Apple II+ with a tape deck was the best thing around? I had this cool game called Air Traffic Controller I played that all the time. Pvt.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I remeber air traffic controller! not once did I get a plane to land..tho it came value psakced with a day in the life of a nuclear power plant operator (fun, but I either melted down the plant or caused brownouts in the weirdville), A day in the life of the President (according to the little rankings, the American people would follow me to the pits of hell afetr submitting their newborn babe sto me for blessing) Wings of Fury (actual game! woooo! strafing AA guns in gloriosio 2d!) A day in the life of a Bee. (I never really got it) and a day in the life of a slavage team member (who always somehow manged to find the object in one day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Griffen, apologies for sounding patronising, not the intention I assure you, but I must correct you with regard to John Tyler..its actually the great "John Tiller". Or Sir John Tiller as I like to call him. I lost years of my life playing the battleground and campaign series and then I met the guy on my honeymoon in the states and he pays for a classy hotel for us for a weekend. The man is a God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 This is indeed a truly sad day. January the 25th marks the end of the 20 some odd years of great gaming that FASA has provided for me as well as countless other people. HARK! There is however a small glimmer of hope, BattleTech and Shadowrun properties will be handed over to "Wizkids", the founder of "Wizkids" is a former founder of FASA, so hence we may be able to see continued production of these products, it will remain to be seen if they will stand up to the high quality set forth by FASA. For anyone interested here is the official word from FASA: http://www.fasa.com/PressReleases/PRClose.html I do have a small question Hannibal, when you say "RIP" games do you mean as in pirate them? If so this has been going on for many MANY years and their is no evidence its going to stop now, unfortunatly. ------------------ "'S muladach ma theid ar sgaoileadh..." -Duncan Ban Macintyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayer Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Jordan Weisman, one of the original FASA founders, is indeed getting the rights to all of the FASA properties, for his company. Weisman has been much more proactive in embracing computers as platforms for games than the rest of FASA Corp. He's been cooperating closely with FASA Interactive (owned by Microsoft) on games like MechWarrior 4 and MechCommander 2. I know (from visiting them) that the FASA Interactive folks would love to do a serious BattleTech tactical game based on the board game rules if they could convince Microsoft to do it or could get an indie developer to pretty much take all the risk. And the offices of FASA Interactive were smothered with Shadowrun stuff, though there's no game in the works that they'll admit to. So, given Weisman's ties with FASA Interactive, and his willingness to think outside the box (witness his latest "collectible miniatures" fantasy game, which is way cool), and his company's owning the BattleTech and Shadowrun rights, I'd suspect that from the computer gamer's perspective, things can only look better now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by GriffinCheng+: Another indie Sharpenal brings us "Steel Beasts" and "Combat Command 2". Shrapnel Games is also scheduled to release All American: The 82nd Airborne at Normandy, the sequel to 101: The Airborne Invasion of Normandy. With "Expected Release Date: 06/00", I'm looking forward to this squad level tactical game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 82nd AIRBORNE is obviously behind schedule, but the designers have said that the project is still on track. I'd expect it sometime before this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Oops, no offense taken, really. Sorry for I still miss a number of typos even if I go back and forth to edit my msg. So, have you tried his "Campaign Series"? Back to topic: it has been years that I think I am one of the very few people playing wargames in my place but when I come to this Forum, I learn more of them than I expect. I never expect wargaming would be a mainstream kinda game or "entertainment". Well, if I like a game and it still runs with the OS in my HD, I don't really care if people are still producing new one. OTOH, I think there is kinda cycle thingy in different categories. Remember people saying "RPG is Dead" back into 1995? But now we have AD&D back and other online "rpg" generating enough cash to make the developers happy. I think flight sim is reaching the bottom of the cycle or it may rebound some time. I read the lastest CGO Action Newsletter and it says people think id Software should concentrate on making engines rather than "games". Are we beginning to see FPS or action game going down in the cycle? We shall see. Darn! SFC2 2.0.0.5 patch passes! Good! Just make it right! Griffin. Originally posted by Wesreidau: Griffen, apologies for sounding patronising, not the intention I assure you, but I must correct you with regard to John Tyler..its actually the great "John Tiller". Or Sir John Tiller as I like to call him. I lost years of my life playing the battleground and campaign series and then I met the guy on my honeymoon in the states and he pays for a classy hotel for us for a weekend. The man is a God! ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by GriffinCheng+: OTOH, I think there is kinda cycle thingy in different categories. Remember people saying "RPG is Dead" back into 1995? But now we have AD&D back and other online "rpg" generating enough cash to make the developers happy. Excellent point, Griffin Cheng! I believe that all game genres eventually reach the low point of their cycle, and either rebound or continue to stay in the way, way bottom of the barrel. Adventure games, although boasting some excellent titles, never really rebounded well, sales wise. I never thought I would see wargames rebound with sales to boost, but then I saw CM. In fact, this game may be the "Baldur's Gate" of the Wargame genre, as BG was for RPG's. It takes one very good game to get people interested and craving for more. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 I'm currently looking forward to RED FACTION... a First Person Shooter for the PS2... Due in March. (Dives into Foxhole!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Originally posted by Mr. Clark: I'm currently looking forward to RED FACTION... a First Person Shooter for the PS2... Due in March. (Dives into Foxhole!) Its for the PC as well, PX2 boy! *puts on overalls and a straw hat, gets into beat up old pickup truck with country music playing* All right ya'll - LEZ GIT EM' !! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Speaking of Red Faction and RPG's.... Did anybody see the spoof of AD&D that was done with RED FACTION characters? It was at www.ifilm.com. then look under the top10 of all time on the right hand side and pick "Summoner Geeks" [This message has been edited by Der Unbekannte Jäger (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Wargaming (ncluding board wargaming) has been dying for at least 20 years now...yet it does not die. It only looks like it's dying when big companies with big ideas for making big bucks jump in and get disappointed because the bucks aren't all that big. They close the store and everybody thinks it's the end of the world. But then once the table is clear, the real enthusiasts come out of the woodwork and patch together a labor of love and life goes on. There's a lesson here, fellas. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Don't forget schwerpunkt is still plugging away. Russo German war looks like it might be pretty good. http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skott Karlsson Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 This sort of question constantly keeps popping up in many places. Computer games of varying classes categories, and types have highs and lows. It doesnt matter wether its Strategy, Adventure, Roleplaying, Sports, Puzzle, Wargame, RTS, or any other type of game. They all go through a periods of slow down, then just when everyone starts crying that something or a category is dead or dying, the industry comes out with a slew of games in that category flooding the store shelves. It takes anywhere from 18-36 months to make a really good game from conception to publication according to the so called experts. Also some say there are not as many good games as there used to be. I dont agree with that asessment. Over the years more an more games have come out. I figure about the upper 10% are the best. When computer games started coming out years ago this number was small. I'll use the number 50 as a arbitrary number to illustrate my point. It may not have been 50 but you'll understand my point once I explain it. Okay, with a constant 10% (actual percentage may be different) factor figuring in, 10% of 50 games equals 5 great games a year. Then as the years progressed and more companies made games 10% 0r 100 = 10, 10% of 500 = 50, 10% of 1000 = 100. Get the point? As more and more games come out the actual number of good or great games also increases. The percentage may or may not change but the *number* of good games does. Granted you also have to figure in the tides of industry. Rises and falls, then rises again. Now some will argue that fewer game complanies are in existance than a few years ago. May be true. Last couple of years we've seen alot of mergers and closings. The companies themselves disappear but the lead designers and programers dont die. The trend is that many go off and start their own game companies. Notice the trend? In the beginning it was individual independents, then grew into larger companies, now the larger companies are are falling back and more independents are springing up again. Its a cyclic thing. And know what? Its going global now. Your going to see more and more independents and small companies spring up from all over the world. Lot of the games that come out wont be good, but many will. As the numbers grow the number of good games will grow too. Technology has an effect on games also. As new technology is developed games that couldnt be made before can now be made. So I say stop fussing and just be patient, play the good games you like now and more will come down the pipe. Happy Gaming, ~Skott~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blades Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 OMG cant believe how many people play SFC & SFC2 and play CM too. As some have said, if you think CM has some problem with what target your tank chooses to fire at or whatever the complant may be.. LOL Go buy a Interplay/Taldren game. LOL then you'll know how good you have it here with BTS. They respond quickly. Dont attack you for asking questions or making comments. This game and this game alone is what has me believing in the smaller game developers.. Blades [This message has been edited by Blades (edited 01-27-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goofy Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 The way I see it we are getting down to fewer companies but better product! As a consumer I speak with my wallet. I'm finding that the companies I support are tending to be small and run by an odd breed called gamers! I truly believe they PLAY their own product! So the shelves won't be filled with crap that I won't buy anyway. No loss there. So I'm in a niche market, been playing wargames since the mid 60's so I'm used to that too. BTS is a good example of a company that knows it's forte and sticks to it. When I looked at that Press Release from FASA I also looked around their page. Got an iron in every fire! Catalog page hadn't been updated since 1998! Action figures! Crap! Another company is just waiting to fill that crap niche. What I saw was a company that lost site of who they were, happens EVERY day! I see that the GAMES are going back to Weisman and I hope he still retains that vision. Aim small, miss small! ------------------ Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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