Jeff Pattison Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Hardware failure is always an acceptible excuse for a postponement. Been down at least 4 times in the last two years and at least one of those times was self inflicted. That time I accidentally flashed my BIOS with the wrong file. OUCH! [This message has been edited by Jeff Pattison (edited 06-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 I can agree with Von, buggin' out really early in the game is pretty much the lazy way out. But folks, after awhile the people that do this will be smeared all over the boards and no one will play with them. It'll come around. By the way, I've never played a PBEM game. I think it would be a nice challenge. Anyone care to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerdude Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 von schrad, you're right about common courtesy. Welcome to the world of the internet. Playing games of chess I have 13 year old girls use foul language and quit and I have 40 year old men use disgusting language and quit. Something seems to happen in some people's mind when they are annonymous. Teaching on the internet can be the most thankless of jobs. By the way, what are you guys talking about when you go over operations? ------------------ Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Von Shrad - I just wanted to post in agreement. It totally pisses me off when someone does to you what has been described here. I had one opponent pull a bull**** gamey tactic in Riesberg as the USA with some initial success until I reacted and things got ugly for him. Then, he stops sending emails, says he is out of time for awhile, and fades away. CRAP! Look, I can play to the last man and I will. If the situation is utterly hopeless and I have exhausted all hopes of a victory, then what I TRY to do is run my men off the edge of the map (my side) and save them. If I can't do that (Im encircled and panicked with just a few men left), I'll surrender. Please be honorable and stick it out. TeAcH [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 06-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted June 9, 2000 Author Share Posted June 9, 2000 Panzerdude, Do you mean to ask what are operations? I think that is what you mean. Operations are a series of battles that span a day or more on a large map. Picture the battle maps that we play connected. You only play on part of the map at a time and the controlled area shifts or it can shift depending on outcome. The op. can be played as both day and night battles. Since I dont have the game I still dont know much about how they will fully work. Do a search on Campaigns and operations. Did I forget anything people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 The problem that some people have is they don't have a plan "B". Everyone has a plan "A" and they're sure it will carry them to victory. The moment it falls apart they bolt. I find that some of the best PBEM games i've enjoyed are when my plan "A" hits the fan and I'm forced to improvise, on the fly, with greatly reduced forces. BTW, Flix, e-mail me with your pref. of game and side and i'll send you a set-up ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Obviously there is no way to force someone to play out a game, even if this would be a good thing to do. However, a good organized PBEM ladder keeps track of the "bugger out rate" of people so you know who it is you should stay away from later on. Scott, the "withdraw" thing is something I would like to see as well. I think it will come into being at some point. Hopefully Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEO Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Offwhite: LOL I have seen eloquence personified... and his name is Peng<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Uh oh! You should call him MR Peng. Watch out for those smilies! ------------------ No smilies were harmed in the making of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgotmypassword Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 My first PBEM, VoT as Ger, couple weeks ago I quit well before my reinforcements arrived. I had made a lot of bad choices based on inaccurate assumptions like bunkers are immune to arty (since the AI never bombed them) and got my ass whooped. My opponent offered me to quit and we started another game up right after that. But, now I feel sort of like a dork esp. since in the second games he had some bad luck early on but he stuck it out. So if you plaved a couple of VoT games with brainboy earlier and thought I was being a poor sport I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgotmypassword Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 I think sometimes this works in reverse. In one PBEM I've really demolished my opponet he has only a few uncaptured units left and all the infantry are routed or panicked. (well due to FOW I'm not sure but they are hightaling towards map age and under fire by several squads.) My troops aren't in great shape and I lost all my armor but they posess all the victory locations and are mostly in good cover. I don't think he is getting reinforcements after turn 28 or so, which it is now. I will lose more men under tank bombardment, but I don't think he will be able to take back any ground. I'm satisfied with my positions and don't want to advance further, so for the next 12 turns I will have no orders. Sort of boring. I will offer cease-fire next turn.(Don't really know what this means in game terms) I hope he/she does not wish to fight to the last man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Former brainboy: No way are you a poor sport! Just for clarification, bb and I have been playing a game and when my Panther shows up it is promptly and summarily executed by a Sherm 75 (due to a re-plotted movement path in which I forgot to re-insert a couple of pauses thereby exposing a nice tasty flank steak, DOH!). Naturally, after many curses hurled at screen, I figured all was lost and offered a surrender since all I had left on the field was my reinforcement platoon and he had all his armor. After the surrender, I then asked if we could resume and continue from right before I made my bonehead mistake and he honorably agreed. I wanted to see if what I had in mind would work and we are still trying to determine that. In short, you are a great sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 I have yet to play a pbem game, but in time I will. I would fight to the last man in order to deny my opponent an easy victory. I find that the challenge of overwhelming odds excites me ( no, not that way ). Of course, when I do cross beyond the AI world, I expect to be on winning side. Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 I think that internet courtesy lacks in many ways. I have contacted at least half a dozen people from this forum, claiming they wanted to play PBEM, and got no answer, yes or no, back. I even responded to one fellow about one minute after he posted his request, so it wasn't like he was being swamped with responses. It's just that you clear away some time in order to play, and then you are left hanging...I know that people lead busy lives, but if someone posts you an email, and it is with good intent, send them some sort of reply, just out of courtesy. Also, (and I am only noting this- I am not biased about this behaviour one way or the other) I notice that people tend to form cliques on forums, where they basically will only respond to each other in their particular group, and responses from "outsiders" are often ignored. There have been a lot of times I wanted to post to various threads, but never bothered, because I knew there would be no response. This doesn't really bother me too much, but sometimes, I see something interesting going on within a group, and I want to put my oar in the water too, but then I feel the same as if I overheard a conversation by a couple of strangers in a coffee shop, and then inserted a response, where none was asked for...(of course I would never do that in a coffee shop, or anywhere else- maybe this is the wrong place, too, sometimes?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted June 10, 2000 Author Share Posted June 10, 2000 Groups. I never noticed at all.But I think you are wrong for not posting to some threads. Most people on this board are pretty fair and generous(sp) with their time. I certainly dont belong to a group(other than the one devoted to CM) and never had any desire to join a Klan. Maybe the question was overlooked by any in the know. I do agree about not returning an E-mail responce. Com'on people, it only takes a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Kevin, You shouldn't feel that way. Our at least I don't. Cliques are formed on forums, same as I assume PBEM cliques are formed. This has more to do with the length of time people have been here and the comfortable factor. People just have to get used to seeing you around. Let's face it. I'll speak my mind or share my ideas at the drop of the hat, and I'm an idiot. So there isn''t any reason for anyone else not to. As for this dissapearing act... I have came across it in other games. But I've never had that problem here. In fact all my PBEM opponents have been great and some good friendships have came from them. As for surrendering. I think most players know when the time is right. As long as there is a chance, stick it out. If all hope is lost, then go for it. The biggest thing is communication. still an idiot in search of a village... Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScurlock Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Yes there is some public ribbing among close friends here, but I'm sure your opinion on a thread is always welcome. As far as the quiting thing goes: It should be perfectly acceptable for someone to surrender a game as soon as it's no longer fun. It is also customary for the losser to award the winner a higher than earned victory level in return, at least in ladder play. I also agree that just dissapearing when a game goes sour is rude and unsportsman like behavior. In ladder play I think the highest level of victory should be awarded to the person left holding the check. ------------------ He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Peltz: Also, (and I am only noting this- I am not biased about this behaviour one way or the other) I notice that people tend to form cliques on forums, where they basically will only respond to each other in their particular group, and responses from "outsiders" are often ignored. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> True, true. It may not be true with this forum (I've only been around a few weeks), but it is definitely true with other forums. In my case, I'm beginning to think it's my nick (Juardis). Pronounced who-ar-dus. Not cool, I know, but it's easily identified and has a story behind it. Like you, I don't sweat it much, but it can get annoying to post valid posts and get ignored. As for PBEM, I'll definitely be looking for some human action. I'm new to the human element of wargames (except I play hot seat with my 10 yr old). I'm just waiting til the vacation breaks clear off the calendar. I'm more inclined to get in 2 or 3 turns a night since I'm extremely busy, so any time I get to play comes in chunks (like a night here or there). But if I start, I should finish. Drudgery is something to guard against though. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Black Sabot: The problem that some people have is they don't have a plan "B". Everyone has a plan "A" and they're sure it will carry them to victory. The moment it falls apart they bolt. [...] BTW, Flix, e-mail me with your pref. of game and side and i'll send you a set-up <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How right you are. I was working through a game with one of my (several) PBEM partners, he was bragging about basically having won, about his garanteed, play-tested-against-the-AI strategy, and then I did something the AI didn't do. All his armour gone in 45 seconds. Suddenly, the turns are slower, and I haven't seen one for a couple of days... hmmm... If he wants to quit, OK, but at least tell me so I can start another one. Flix: look out, BlackSabot learns quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aaronb: Flix: look out, BlackSabot learns quickly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I learn from the best teachers ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorbuff Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 I dont see the problem with a player quitting even in the first turn if he/she wants to. I think it could be fairly argued that there should even be a "battlefield integrity" rule in most cases where one side, withdraws from battle when losses reach a certain percentage. That was a feature of ASL I believe which was after all part of the original concept of CM and its not only realistic but needed with exceptions only for certain "fanatical" units that may be compelled to fight to the last man i.e. SS, Japanese, certain Soviet units and perhaps U.S. Marines and Finns in 1939/40. Also it is a game after all, I am in it for enjoyment, not to be humiliated. I dont see a problem with quitting anytime in the game as long as the player concedes defeat and acknowledges the opposing player as the victor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by armorbuff: I dont see the problem with a player quitting even in the first turn if he/she wants to. I think it could be fairly argued that there should even be a "battlefield integrity" rule in most cases where one side, withdraws from battle when losses reach a certain percentage. That was a feature of ASL I believe which was after all part of the original concept of CM and its not only realistic but needed with exceptions only for certain "fanatical" units that may be compelled to fight to the last man i.e. SS, Japanese, certain Soviet units and perhaps U.S. Marines and Finns in 1939/40. Also it is a game after all, I am in it for enjoyment, not to be humiliated. I dont see a problem with quitting anytime in the game as long as the player concedes defeat and acknowledges the opposing player as the victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have to agree with that. I once tried to withdraw my forces when it was clear that I was outmaneuvred and hemmed in in CE and it took a bloody long time of turning around pointless PBEM turns. In the end the result was the same in points as if I had surrendered immediately and marched my men off to POWship. Yet realistically withdrawal is what I would do as a commander. Now I would just surrender and offer another game. Having said that, in a scenario like VoT or anywhere playing a fixed defense, I would draw out the fight until almost to the last man, b/c I feel it would be 'realistic', especially playing the German side. The aim would then be (single battle or operation) to inflict maximum casualties in return for the real estate. TargetDrone, who otherwise wiped me off the VoT map with almost unbearable ease lost a Sherman due to suddenly becoming irrationally exuberant. On the topic of quitters, I have been lucky so far, and I have also met very interesting people through my PBEMs. So if someone were to quit on me I would put it down to experience and strike that person unless they have really good reasons. And Major Tom, I never thought you were just bailing, hope you manage to sort out the mess. Maybe get a decent computer? Maybe a, aww let's not go there... Please note that all smilies on this iMac were abducted by Dr.Evil. ------------------ Andreas The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPeng Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Please note that all smilies on this iMac were abducted by Dr.Evil. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I LOVE you, man!!! ------------------ Peng sez "die a lot now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Please note that all smilies on this iMac were abducted by Dr.Evil. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are they now...Evil Smilies? ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: Are they now...Evil Smilies? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> He fed them to his cat, using the unnecessarily slow dipping mechanism. Uh, Mr.Peng, the Smiley invasion of iMacland succeeded only too well. I will counterattack on Sunday though. Apologies to the OK-Pengmacht ------------------ Andreas The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 <HTML> <FONT SIZE=2> von shrad: </P><DIR> <DIR> There is a big difference between offering a surrender when it's obvious nothing further is to be gained by continued battle, and slinking off into the twilight without a word to your opponent just because you think you might loose....IMHO it's the difference between winners and loosers --- no matter how the game plays out.</P></DIR> </DIR> Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I (and I think everyone man enough to speak up) agrees 110%. I was just chiming in on a 'related' subject on the length of time and tedium a 'real' withdraw takes in CM (now). </P><DIR> <DIR> I'm talking about the player who quits on turn 3 when his 75mm bunker is taken out. If thats is the norm for ladder play, count me out forever. </P></DIR> </DIR> Well, as far as ladders go...get ready for it. </P> Get ready for both sides of this 'equation'. There will be those that draaaaaaaggggg out the most hopeless game in a 1 in 1,000,000 chance they can scrape out a draw instead of a loss. AND there will be those that drop connection and don't respond to emails in an effort to not lose a game either. God forbid the drop a notch or two in the ladder. Be prepared for it and you won't be too upset when it happens. Hopefully it won't happen too often on the CM ladder.</P></FONT></BODY> </HTML> ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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