killmore Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 What does AFV mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Armoured Fighting Vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted January 19, 2000 Author Share Posted January 19, 2000 THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Don't listen to JonS. He doesn't know Jack Sh#t. AFV really stands for Aesthetically Fornicated Vowels. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 OK, I have a better one. What is Jabo derived from? Also, what were the typical air support planes in the European Theatre and what sort of ordinance did they carry? My guesses: Yanks - Thunderbolt, Mustang Brits - Hurricane, Spitfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mch Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Jabo derives from Germ>:Jager(hunter) Bomber(") Ja>Bo.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Actually, for Brits the single-engine f/b I've most heard about is the Typhoon. Much more rugged and heavily-loadable than either the Spit or the Hurrie. As for Americans, Mustang pilots hated ground support missions because of the vulnerable positioning of the radiator (on the belly of the plane) The Thunderjug was quite capable as a ground support craft. AFAIK, Allied twin-engine ground support craft were used more commonly in the Pacific (the B25 esp, maybe because of the ability to carry more oomph farther) but in Europe the Havoc and B26 Marauder were used by the Yanks, while the Brits flew the Beaufighter (?) DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Kool info mch. I would guess in 1944 for Allied Ground support Plains. US P-47 Thunderbolt, P-38 Lighting (limited use), P-50 Mustang UK Typhoon, And another plane I can't remember the name of (both this and the Typhoon were direct descendents of the Hurricane) Ordinance; 500 lb. bombs, and 5" rockets? Saw an interesting show about the Mustang. Just about every single Mustang pilot, even the great aces, was shot down, or nearly shot down on a strafing run. These planes weren't designed for strafing (not enough armour and poorer control at lower altitudes) but, they were thrown into it. Ok, here's a question. What's the longest serving, unchanged fighter or fighter/bomber version during WWII. This doesn't count a classes entire set of versions (eg. Spitfire I, II, V, IX, etc...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Sheesh Doug, who's been pushing your buttons Yanks: dunno - mustang seems a reasonable guess Brits: were there ANY Hurricanes in NW Europe in 44/45. I don't think so. Sppitfires were too fragile and small (limited payload, limited loiter time) to be good air support. The Brits mainly (but not without excepition) relied on tempests and typhoons, carrying 10x5" (?) rockets. Possibly also a 500lb bomb or too I think. Jon ------------------ Ubique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 19, 2000 Share Posted January 19, 2000 Tom, was it the ME109E? Or are you talking about a plane that was built in one model, ever? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 What I am after is what you suggested. However, it might not be WHAT you suggested is what I am after... Actually, from what I know, the Hurricane IIc was the longest serving model. Some might doubt this, but, it served from the end of the Battle of Britain (1940) until at least 1944. In Burma there were still many front line Hurricane IIc squadrons by 1944, possibly until 1945. Sorry if I made it sound like it had to be solely on the Western Front. This thing was armed with 4 20mm Cannon, frightfully better than 8 .303mm guns! What was the timespan of the operational service of the BF109E? Anyone have any other suggestions? [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 01-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 **Warning. Do not read below if you dont care about this sort of stuff** <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>US P-47 Thunderbolt, P-38 Lighting (limited use), P-50 Mustang <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK, I need to point something out here The P-38 was one of the most effective weapons of the air war. Although it got more press in the Pacific, it served vital roles in Europe, filling in until the arrival of the P-51 (which was a helluva plane). 8th Fighter Command in Europe wanted to get rid of them as fast as possible, due to problems they had encountered with them at high altitude, on bomber escort. Complaints were made about the reliablilty of their engines.This might account for their lackluster reputation in the north. At the same time the 9th , 12th, and 15th Air Forces were begging for them. This was the first all purpose fighter aircraft. And its record on ground attack missions is impressive. Italy, Southern Europe, and the Mediterranean saw alot of the P-38. (I don't see very many movies about this front of the war, but oh well.) Oh yeah, Africa. The P-38 was the only available fighter capable of flying from the UK to Casablanca. It made the invasion of North Africa possible. But as far as the scale of CM1, the P-38 was phased out as soon as the P-51's showed up. The 20th and 55th fighter groups had some tremendous successes with th 38 over France and Germany, shortly before their transfer. OK , I'll stop now, I just really like that plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 My grandfather flew one. North Africa. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 A6M Zero design was spec'ed in 1937, accepted in late '39; first production deliveries were in mid-1940. There were versions and updates but the basic platform continued in production through '45, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 Sorry, meant to type P-51, for some reason P-50 seemed logical? The A6M2 Zero was in service from about 1940 (in very limited numbers, there were still some A5M's in service by 1941). The A6M5 (1943?) and later A6M8 (1944-45?) were slight modifications of the orignial. More armour, different guns, better engine, etc. However, the Hurricane I was delivered in 1937 as a production model (No. 111 Sqn?) and the basic frame was in service until 1944-45. The P-38 is indeed one of those underated planes, especially in the West front. They did a damn good job in both area's of combat. They were probably a much better plane to use against ground units than P-51's. They had the longest range before the large scale use of droptanks. Plus, if you lose one engine, who cares, you still have one more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 I like P-38 Lightning too. Well, I think the yanks use A-26 as well. Side note: Quite a number of P-39 Corba were sent to the Soviets in late 1941 thru lend-lease and the Soviets loved the 30(?)mm cannon for CAS role. Humm, I think some Hurricane were there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 I think they called the A26 (A for Assault) the “Havoc” I just read in Aviation History that the BF109 was changed to the ME109 with the E version (nicknamed Emil by it’s pilots) after Willy Messerscmidt bought up all the stock of BFW (Bayerische Flugzeugwerke Allgemeine Gesellschaft). The Me109E-1 came out in early 1939. The ME109F went into production in January of ’41. The G series which came out in the summer of’42 was the most numerous. Didn’t they call the P-47 Thunderbolt the “Jug” because it looked like a Milk Jug lying on it’s side? I know the Germans had a nickname for the P38 wasn’t it the Fork Tailed Devil or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 Nicknames The Japanese if I remember correctly were the ones that named the P-38 the Fork Tailed Devil. They also called the F4U Corsair the Whistling Death. I think one reason (I have a pretty good book at home but I'm at work now) that the P38 was not accepted in Europe was the high altitude cold weather performance. It was something about they couldn't heat the cockpit properly and the pilots froze their butts off. At + 20k its probably -55 C. Most of the flying in the Pacific was done at lower altitudes plus they don't get the cold weather like Europe. Also, I agree witht the others in regards to the P47 as a great ground attack plane. From what I've read, the P47 was fearsome at this (8 - .50 cal mg's plus rockets, can you say duck ). It could take tremendous punishment and still make it home. I've read stories of it getting back with cylinders shot off, pieces of wing, tail missing etc. was a very tough plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted January 20, 2000 Share Posted January 20, 2000 An AFV is actually a specific type of a more general vehicle known as Tracked Wheeled All Terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted January 20, 2000 Author Share Posted January 20, 2000 P-38 was a good ground attack plane. But don't call it a good fighter. (In europe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted January 20, 2000 Author Share Posted January 20, 2000 By the way I think P in fighter designation stands for "Pursuit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted January 21, 2000 Share Posted January 21, 2000 And now we are discussing on ground attack planes on a thread called "What does AFV mean"... Well, anyway, I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned Il-2 Sturmovik this far. Sturmovik was definitely one of the best ground attack planes of the war as it was heavily armed and armored. I don't have any source at hand right now so I can't give details on its armament, but there was lot of it. More than one German fighter pilot run out of ammo trying to shoot one of them down. Finnish soldiers used to call those planes as "maatalouskone" ("agricultural plane", a contraption from "maataistelukone", literally: "ground combat plane") because a single plane could transform a road section into something that resembled a potato field. BTW, I'm quite certain that "Jabo" came from "Jadgbomber", with "jadg" deriving from "jäger". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted January 21, 2000 Share Posted January 21, 2000 tss :- we are waiting for CM2 to mention the Sturmovik Major Tom :- the other one you are thinking of I believe is the Tempest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted January 21, 2000 Share Posted January 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>P-38 was a good ground attack plane. But don't call it a good fighter. (In europe) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, actually, it was a good fighter in europe. The earlier models were problematic in *Northern Europe*, but there was a whole lot of fighting done by groups other than 8th Air Force. The later models, that incorporated cockpit heating, improved engines, etc. were sent to areas that *wanted* the 38, in Europe. In Italy, the p-38 saw kill ratios of 5 Germans FIGHTERS for every P-38 lost. Sure, I'm splitting hairs here, but that was Europe, and the Lightning performed pretty well, for an aircraft oroginally designed as a short-range bomber interceptor. BTW , my grandfather flew a 38 too. Station in Palermo in 44 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 21, 2000 Share Posted January 21, 2000 There's a guy who lurks on soc.war.ww2 (I thin it is) who has a very largge site on hte P-38 (which of course I don't have the url off ), who reckons the "L" models weer pretty crash hot, even in Europe. However the early P-38 models weren't that good, and not many "L"'s weer used there, the 8th instead standardising on the P-51 for long range escort. Also - P-39 had a 37mm cannon, as did hte P-63 Kingcobra, of which the entire production went to Russia. Russia received about 14,500 US & UK aircraft, including 1 Mosquito, 1400+ Spitfires, A-20's, a few Thunderbolts & Mustangs, etc. Somewhere at home I have a complete list which I'll hopefully remember to post tonight. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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