TeAcH Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 Is there any reason why the quality of the enemy troops is listed for you to see and vice versa? I mean, if I am playing in a head-to-head match, or even v the AI, I don't think there would be anyway for me to be able to tell what quality the enemy troops are. How is this explained in full fog of war? I was playing a PBEM last night when it occurred to me. My opponent and I had infantry engaged in a battle. I had ID'ed his units to the man (8 of 12), which is fine, but seeing that he had green troops helped me and hurt him. Can that be discussed for future patching considerations?? Thanks TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 I think it tells you because you men can see the number of the other players men. I could be incorrect. ------------------ Check out my web page! www.geocities.com/robisme_ca/Combat1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 What would be really nice here is to have the system "lie" to you and tell you that you are facing green troops. When you attempt to take advantage of this and subsequently get the proverbial wedgie you would think twice about the data you get from the battlefield. This would be the only way I could justify having troop quality info being revealed. It's as if one of your units has reported back to you what it thinks it is facing - only to be wrong. Outside of this I would agree that it isn't something that should be so easily revealed; if at all. [This message has been edited by Schrullenhaft (edited 06-29-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 The reasoning behind this IIRCC is that after observing the actions of the enemy troops your men would be able to assertain their experience. In other words by the time you get to this level of spotting, you have a pretty good idea what you are up against do to close prox. or long term viewing. At least that is how I remember it being explained a while back. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted June 30, 2000 Author Share Posted June 30, 2000 Hmm...thanks all. I guess if that was the reasoning Scott, I would have voted against it. I don't think you can tell if a unit is Elite, Crack, Veteran, Regular, Green, Conscript, etc. In the heat of battle, I don't think you can tell that. Whatever the rationale, it only serves to hurt you and your opponent when this is revealed. BTS, can we have an option to disable that in a future patch? Thanks TeAcH [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 06-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Teach, if you ever see the different between green and elite troops in combat, trust me when I say Im sure you will notice the differance In the future though I think Id like to see this area a littler greyer. Maybe Low/Medium/High quality instean? [This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 06-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I like the idea of the game lying to you about troop quality (at least a little). It would be like the mis-identification of light tanks as halftracks! Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Author Share Posted July 1, 2000 kwazydog: I agree that you will see a difference between elite and green troops in battle..because those are two extremes. But the logic fails in consideration of determining the difference between two adjacent rankings (e.g. veteran and regular). You would not know that because there isnt that much of a disparity there. Secondly, and I think this is another supporting fact. Currently the game will not only provide me with an enemy troops skill level, but with the special abilities of a command unit? What? You heard me right. How can that be explained? All I am saying is make it so the game will tell you what type of squad it is (volks, rifle 44, etc) along with the number fighting v. the number dead or wounded and thats it. TeAcH [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I dont think the game should even give you such detailed info about your own units! If there is sufficient command and control then maybe.. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Author Share Posted July 1, 2000 Okay..here's a picture (pardon the quality) that illustrates my point. I am playing a friend the Red Devils scenario..PBEM style with me as the Germans. I have cliked on a unit of his and I can see: -His experience level -His mental state -His special abilities -and that he is Hiding! Too much data for Fog of war TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 You forgot the 'worst' one IMO: Ammo level. To tell exactly how many rounds of ammo that squad has is a tough trick. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Author Share Posted July 1, 2000 Right!! Argh! Thanks Scott for pointing that out too. I was going to mention that one too but it totally slipped my mind during the post. Ammo level? BTS Please change this for fog of war purposes. TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 The only time troop quality should be mentioned is after the enemy uniform is is identified. I think that in the heat of combat a paratrooper uniform is a pretty fair indication of troop quality. I think, too, when in late war scen Volkstrum units are identified it would be do to age (young and old only) as well as mixed uniforms. But I would appreciate the info being very stingy to get. I had a great FOW sound contact that really made me appreciate the games ability to dis-inform. Playing a PBEM of Aachen as US my 105 GMC gets a sound contact at the map edge, very close to it's position in my rea areas! Shocked and scared I move the unit ASAP. Since Aachen is a street by street city fight the map edge is really just more houses and streets. The AI kept me honest by "sound contact flanking"..and by God, it worked. My partner, through our own FOW, doesn't have an actual clue as to what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 We had this discussion in another thread already. Conclusion was, that a possible solution would be the implementation of one more FOW setting ("Extreme FOW"), in addition to the already implemented FOW settings (but not INSTEAD of them). Thoughts? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Soemthing is wrong with that picture. That was taken with NO FOW as you NEVER get ammo info from a enemy unit! NEVER. Level 4 ID is the highest level and while I agree it does give too much info (I will be making a suggestion for a EXTREME FOW setting) it does not give the type of info displyed in the picture above... The only time you get the bonuses and Ammo count displayed for enemy units is with NO or Partial FOW selected... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 The picture is wrong. Either you have clicked your own unit or FOW is turned off. Sten ------------------ Keep your whisky on the rocks and your tanks on the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IntelWeenie: It would be like the mis-identification of light tanks as halftracks! Whoops! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh. In one game, I had both a Panzer IVH *and* a 251/1 HT originally IDed as a "Lt. Tank". Nasty. Especially when I had my Greyhound running from that supposed "Lt. Tank" and it turns out to be a halftrack. Arrrgh! And Madmatt's right, on that game you guys are playing, there's no FOW on at all. The game currently has a bug that will sometimes turn FOW completely OFF!!! When starting a new game, be sure to check that FOW setting! Unfortunately, the game decided to turn FOW to 'None' on me for Sunken Lane. I had even avoided reading Fionn's AAR because I knew this scenario would be included with the game, and didn't want to be spoiled. I fired up the game and surprisingly could see a large number of enemy foxholes and I was wondering which of my units actually had LOS to these locations. *sigh* I'm still playing the scenario, but it's just not the same. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 No FOW huh? That could explain it! I don't ever recal getting ammo details on the enemy. But then again I have only had it for about 5 days... ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 IIRC, you also never get what the unit is doin g(hiding, crawling, brewing tea, picking nose) when FOW is on full. You may be using partial FOW (I've never used it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 If FOW is going to be patched, i would also like to see the feature where you don't know how long the battle will exactly last. Something like an increasing chance that a scenario will end from, say, turn 25 onwards. [This message has been edited by Schugger (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Author Share Posted July 1, 2000 Well, this must be bug then because FOW was set to full at the start of the game. I didnt turn it off. can that be done midgame? Please comment. Bug alert!! -or- DEU!!(Deficient End User). Also, aside from the picture, there still seems to be the lack of FOW when it comes to what the current "functional" FOW provides. I vote for an extreme ("true") FOW setting so I cant see where my opponent has green troops and vet troops, etc. etc. etc. BTW, Id be happy to send someone the game file as an email attachment if they know how to determine if FOW was disabled somehow. TeAcH [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 1, 2000 Author Share Posted July 1, 2000 Oh, and one more thing. No. I am not clicking on my own unit! Sheesh! TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 I've had FoW mysteriously switch off at the start of a game. It happened most recently against Rick Brown; we did our setups with standard settings in a canned scenario, yet when we started we could each see everything on the map. Neither of us noticed until Rick ran the unit scaling up to +4 to make sure he hadn't missed giving orders to anybody. Suddenly a whole mess of giant Germans appeared all over the place. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 2, 2000 Author Share Posted July 2, 2000 Wow! Now that needs major attention. Good reporting! TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 I've had a couple of the canned scenarios default to either Partial or None as I was going through the selection process. Now I carefully ensure that it is set to Full before I start the battle. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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