Mr. Clark Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 Since playing CM I've REALLY begun researching WWII. (Beforehand, I was more of a modern weapons & techniques guy... more Rainbow 6/ Rogue spear) I'd like to get some suggestions for PC games that cover OTHER aspects of WWII... I know this seems like a strange place to ask for this help... but I trust you guys! Also, I'm NOT asking for any games that are actually in COMPETITION with CM. (I KNOW CM is best at what it is!) ALSO, If a game is a few years old, please still mention it... I'm looking for realism and quality, not STATE OF THE ART graphics. I'm specifically looking for games on WWII NAVAL BATTLES, AIR FORCE Dogfight or Bomber sims, and Tanks simulators. I hope no-one here takes this as an anti-CM thread... because it CERTAINLY is NOT! CM is what has caused my craze! Now I just want the full spectrum! (Thus the Air Force and Naval games!) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxx_IK Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 You want Air Force Dogfight? I'll show you dogfighting. Four words: Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator. It kicks ASS, so go get it right now!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAuliffe Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waxx_IK: You want Air Force Dogfight? I'll show you dogfighting. Four words: Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator. It kicks ASS, so go get it right now!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I second that...(I know, I know it's MS, but it's the only game I play besides CM) ------------------ http://users.pandora.be/aneric/index8.htm#Projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 I've enjoyed Panzer Commander as a tank simulator, European Air War and Jane's World War II Fighters for air combat. One advantage now is that all three games are cheap if you can get them, and are fully patched up. European Air War especially has a huge mod base and fan support, Jane's is graphically excellent, and Panzer Commander is a very serviceable WWII tank simulator. Some prefer Panzer Elite but I've never played that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devils Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 I have only played a few WWII games, but I enjoyed Close Combat II (Operation Market Garden) alot. The rest of the CC series was very disapointing. CC2 is several years old now, but still fun (CC5 is due out Sept. 30th). Talonsofts Western Front was fun but I lost interest in it fairly quickly. It covers much larger scale battles (up to corps!) than CM. Hope that helps some. ------------------ I'm sorry, we haven't the facilities to take all of you prisoner. Was there anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPA Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 I second Red Devils' comments. I also enjoyed CC, but it was a disappointment after CC2, they really lost the plot. The CC4 strategic layer was IMHO a pile of crap. What bugged me about about CC was they had historical maps, but there was really no point because the size of forces in any given battle were too small to be historical. This demonstrates the limitations of pure real time wargames, as the number of units has to be small in order to maintain some order of coordinated control. Still ended up in click fests at times though. However, saying that, I was pretty much glued to CC2 for a couple of years and had a lot of fun. West Front can be a micro management nightmare especially when you get up to divisional size battles (it's turn based and unit scale - Platoons and Support Sections). It's also hexed based, I couldn't go back to hexes after CM. If WF had a CM "we go" combat resolution system it would be a much improved gaming experience. Dare I say it, but WF contains an excellent and flexible OOB editor which uses windows sub-folders and contains comprehensive templates for just about every major unit type on the Western Front. It's a useful source for CM if you're stuck for an OOB. IPA ------------------ "Surrender? Tell them to go to hell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberized Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 I can heartily recommend European Air War, as mentioned above, there are alot of nice mods for it too. I bought it when 1st came out and figure it is on my HD to stay - although I haven't played it in a long, long time. It's a "work of art" and labor of love like CM! ------------------ "I stink, therefore, I am!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted September 23, 2000 Author Share Posted September 23, 2000 Wow! I knew there would be some good opinions out there! Thanks! I'm heading to Wal-Mart now to check out some of those mentioned... No-one has mentioned any Naval Battle games yet... is there a stunning lack of good ones? Thanks for the help on building up my WWII collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 One of the older games I play sometimes is Across the Rhine from Microphose. You can play fictional and historical battles. Like cm it is batalionsize,only not in 3d but 2d. Fun thing about this game(it has many shortcomings too) ,you have to choose ammoloads and you have to distribute fuel. After each battle you get replacements. vehicles can break down or you can put units out of action if they get shot up to bad. Oh and you can play as the commander of each individual vehicle and shoot the enemy yourself. For navygames try Harpoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 For naval battles, as far as i'm concerned, no game yet has beat Carrier Strike, an early 90's game. The graphics aren't much, and theres only 5 scenarios, but there is a random deployment generator and campaign game. That and the actions are realistic and varied. Much like real carrier actions in WWII after the initial strikes are over, the forces are relatively battered though, which may make the last 30-40 turns kind of skirmishy as compared to the earlier waves of 60 dive bombers...It has a really cool and nesion building flak method by the way... Fighting Steel is an alright surface battle game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 Yes, EAW is still on my HD. Don't play it much, but when I get the flight sim bug--it'll be there. Also like/no love Talonsoft's Battle of Britain. Outstanding air campaign and very cheap now. Naval: I also have Carrier strike, and also try Carriers at War by SSG. Both real old. (very cheap). Fighting Steel seems good, but didn't play it much. You could also try Talonsofts 12o'clock High: Bombing the Reich. Be forewarned though. Its big. Very long campaigns. Very detailed. Runs slow on my system though. Played a couple of the smaller scenarios. Big Week and the Italian Campaign. IMHO, BOB is much better. 2 very old games are Pacific War and West Front. Dated graphics but good. My cousin still swears by those (even with the Grigsby touch). A new one I've yet to try is Panzer Campaigns: Normandy 44. Looks real good, may wait till its cheaper. Reminds me of the V for Victory Utah Beach game (also good) . Good luck! ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 Get ahold of Bullethead, he's involved with a really historic Naval sim in development right now. "The Raiders" or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Ju Ju Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 Nobody mentins BTS' own Over the Reich or Auchtung Spitfire? Both are a blast for turn based, non-sim WW II air combat. ------------------ "I didn't go to evil medical school for six years to be called MR. Evil." Dr. Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted September 23, 2000 Share Posted September 23, 2000 Gotta agree with Red Devil..Talonsoft`s Battle of Britain was great if you are into resource management as opposed to actually flying (some bugs still prevail but there are workarounds). Also, European Air War has my vote as THE best WWII flight sim, so many mods, online sqns etc.. Sorry, don`t know too much about naval warfare except years ago I played the original Harpoon to death and I guess the later versions will be just as detailed. BTW, is your username taken from Clancy`s books by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devils Posted September 24, 2000 Share Posted September 24, 2000 Just for your info, there are a couple of Close Combat II editions up for sale on ebay right now really cheap. Search there site for "Close Combat 2" or "Operation Market Garden." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted September 24, 2000 Share Posted September 24, 2000 Personally: Air War - European Air War Operational/strategy - The Operation Art of War Tank Sim - Panzer Elite (if you like 3 hour battles) Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted September 24, 2000 Author Share Posted September 24, 2000 Wesreidau, yup, I got it from Clancy! Love most of his Ryan and Clark books! If you see a Mr. Clark online, there is a good chance it's me, as I have used the name for a couple years now. Looks like I will DEFINATELY be picking up European Air War, Panzer Elite, and possibly Carriers at war (if I can find it). Wal-Mart has NOTHING! Thanks guys! Great help from a great community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted September 24, 2000 Share Posted September 24, 2000 Visit the brand new Raider Operations message board at www.delphi.com/raiderops Main site www.historicalgames.bizland.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 I also recommend EAW and Jane's WW2 Fighters. EAW not sold in stores anymore, but available on Ebay cheap. Combatsim.com has the most excellent EAW forum where you can get full support and mods. ------------------ Just call me Lucifer 'cause I'm in need of some respect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveman Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 I haven't installed it yet, but I picked up Janes WWII Fighters this weekend for $8 at my local wholesale club. I believe Silent Hunter II is out sometime this X-mas season. Beyond that, I don't think there's been a WWII naval game out since Silent Hunter... that was '95-'96 I believe. ------------------ “Out in front every one is holding out. Every one. My grenadiers and my engineers and my tank crews – they’re all holding their ground. Not a single man is leaving his post. They are lying silent in their foxholes for they are dead.” – Gen. Fritz Bayerlein on an order to hold his position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oompa-Loompa Posted September 25, 2000 Share Posted September 25, 2000 I agree with Mace, the Operational Art of War is a good operational/strategy game. No "fast action" and a bit heavy on micromanging supplies, but I enjoyed the way political events could shape the battlefield resources/goals and the engine was easy to use in terms of representing battles across different wars (Balkans war ala 1910 or so,WWI, WWII, Korean, etc.). Ok...now to date myself...I also enjoyed the V for Victory series when it first came out... I don't really know if it would "hold up" now. I suspect it wouldn't ...especially in light of CM. Sorry, I just had to get that in ------------------ "Do not needlessly endanger your lives until I give you the signal" Dwight D. Eisenhower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Callmeyer Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 My 2 cents Air. I loved 1942 Pacific Air War. The game had a serious fault in the stall model, but you could work around it. The best part was the carrier game module that integrated an opertaional strategic map with soome control over a task force (direction, speed, launching scouts) which would then jump to the flight simulator when the action started. You'll have trouble finding it but it should be cheap. Definitely patch it if you do or the enemy AI tends to commit suicide. I seem to recall it being finicky about memorry management too (ah the good old days). I also REALLY like Jane's WW2 Fighters. I like the flight model and the look and feel of the game when you are in the air. Very engaging visually. The missions themselves can return odd victory ratings though as you are really locked into objectives including where to land and strict adherence to waypoints, but this is a small matter. Panzer Commander is fun for a quick shooting match with enemy armour, though I only really enjoy playing from the Commander's position. The gunnery takes too long to get good at. You'd have to really commit to the learning curve to be a good gunner. Still, for a fun 20 minutes of white knuckles, it's good. Naval sims are tough. The best cionceptually were the Great Naval Battles series from SSI circa 1995. They were buggy though and were best at simulating surface combat though a valiant effort was made to simulate the carrier battles of the Pacific War. This is a micromanager's dream (damage control, fleet and ship navigation, formations, gunnery, down to the ability to crawl inside turrets and torp mounts) and included scenario editors and strategic campaigns. This also had strict memory configuration requirements. Definitely patch 'em if you get one. I'd recommend GNB2 if you find any of these. It seemed the most stable and best play balance. Fighting Steel is kind of the sucsessor to the GNB series and is fun but limited. SSI seems to have said the h**l with the air combat with Fighting Steel and concentrated on surface actions. The game is not nearly as detailed as GNB and is not strictly a sim as you don't really virtually climb aboard the ships like in GNB, but control from a position somewhere between Fleet Admiral and God. Still, it is fun and you get to fight at sea in a 3d world. Silent Hunter was a great sub sim and I could reccomend it as a dated yet thoroughly enjoyable game. Then again, you might want to wait for SH2 to come out. Some of these older SSI games can sometimes be found in game bundles. Used to like the Steel Panther series but why bother now that CM is here. The Panzer General Series is also ww2 land combat at an operational to strategic level, so you can get the scope of large scale operations, but the gaming model is a but passe by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted September 26, 2000 Share Posted September 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>and possibly Carriers at war (if I can find it). Wal-Mart has NOTHING!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You can get Carriers at War from SSG's site: http://www.ssgus.com/index.htm Really great game,with a fiendish AI. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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