bauhaus Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Let's see if you can beat this one. I sent 3 German infantry squads and a schreck team up the left side of the map near the wall ( in VoT) in an attempt to flank Berli in a PBEM game. That and to take out some shermans when they came in. I had them in fast move past the wall and on their way into the woods when I ran into an American anti-tank team. Needless to say......Dead anti-tank team. Cocky as my men were, they continued on their merry way into the woods only to run into the entire American army. There may have been Marines, some British forces, a smattering of hunters out for the weekend, and a group of housewives out for a walk in the woods. Needless to say, my men became target practice. I lost all of them within 15 seconds.......except for one brave soul who made it to the next turn before being exterminated. Bloody, just bloody.......though the pattern the bodies fell in spell S.O.S. for all aircraft to read while flying above the battle field. How's that for pathetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Ouch. I got taken out in that exact forest trying the same thing. I was more or less testing the AI and how it deals with flanking actions and deep penetrations. When I used the Move Fast command I got smeared but when I used the Sneak command my men fared quite well. They stopped as soon as they encountered the enemy and tried to lay down some fire. It was still bloody though. Fighting in the forest is gonna be bloody. Hurtegen Forest style I guess. -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 I did the exact same thing less the schreck team w/ one of my German platoons. They met up w/ the Ami's a little ways into the forest, but I got the better of him and killed a number of his guys before he sent another platoon over to finish me off. I also got lucky and happened to run into the Ami's right near the end of my troops plotted movement path which just so happened to put me right on the crest of a little ridge over there right as the Ami's came unsuspectingly marching by. From there my guys rained down fire on the Ami's. Major bonus for me besides causing him a fair number of casualties (killed a zook team, his platoon HQ, and a number of guys in each of his squads) was that I slowed him up considerably and threw off his attack plan. The trick to moving through the woods is to not be running. Running is really bad news. What happens is all of your guys end up dead in 10-15 seconds like described above. Moving is wayyyyyy safer. Mikester out. [This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 05-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 The exact same thing happened to me against SS_PL except I brought 2 schrecks. Walked right into an ambush. Damn the luck. 3 men were all that was left. The military cencors are looking for a way to cover that one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehammer Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von shrad: 3 men were all that was left. The military cencors are looking for a way to cover that one up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, you must be mistaken. I have it on good authority from Herr Goebbels that your men are refitting in a rest camp after achieving a great victory for the Fatherland, all of them earning the Iron Cross, 2nd Class. ------------------ R.I.P. Blacksilver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 yeah, refitting, thats it. Then there was a ski accident,no a train derailment, no wait. They were trying to save the lives of kittens in a burning building... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Yep, me too... Except in my game the AI bombarded the woods with 81mm motar rounds while the opposing platoons were blasting each other at point blank range. After 2 turns of that both side's survivors panicked and retreated out in different directions! ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Hmmm. I tried this also, and had one Rifle44 squad turn into all-time heroes. They caused 35 infantry casualties and knocked out a mortar, and five of them were still in good order at game's end (though a second squad, 'schreck, and platoon hq were all eliminated in the firefights). Two US platoons were creamed. Sneaking was definitely the key. What's even better is that the AI sent artillery in that direction, but my guys (luckily) were all gone by the time the barrage hit. Three turns of arty, two batteries (1x81 + 1x105) from the looks of it, wasted. Almost as good as seeing an eliminated FO! (In the same game, one sherman 105 knocked out all of my bunkers and pillboxes, only to be taken out by the Panther who got 5 tank kills, 14 infantry casualties, and 10 infantry captured. High density of decorations that day...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Hmm, I've tried it several times... usually works. I guess in Bauhaus' case, its just that he is rather pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Hey, I resemble that remark too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted May 30, 2000 Author Share Posted May 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Hmm, I've tried it several times... usually works. I guess in Bauhaus' case, its just that he is rather pathetic <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You taught me everything I know when it comes to wargaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 I tried this too. I had the Germans set at 50% advantage. I went in there with 2.5 platoons and mauled the Amis. We also came to a crest towards the north (right side of German map) and we got into a grenade throwin' frenzy. Potato mashers going everywhere over the crest. Even eventually pushed northward towards the road and started picking off FOs across the road on the Hill 198 ridge. ------------------ "While stands the Collosseum, Rome shall stand. When falls the Collosseum, Rome shall fall. And when Rome falls -- the World." **Byron** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 I only managed once to complete a successful flanking maneuver: Used my Super-Stealth-HQ with it's complete platoon and two attached Schreck-Teams. They were crawling all the way until they reached the deep forest and stumbled over the US support units ( Mortars and MGs) while sneaking then. You can imagine it was a lenghty process and when the Schreck Teams were finally into a good position to shot at two surviving Shermans, the AI surrendered! When i tried to repeat my glorious march to the forest, my troops were spotted everytime and draw heavy artillery fire. I'm actually thinking this AI beast is learning.... ------------------ Es gibt Tage da verliert man und Tage da gewinnen die anderen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Humorous tactical error on my part. The American AI was attacking my town in VOT, and one of my platoons was strategically spread in a two-forward, two-back system on my left flank. I was in 100 meter combat with the entire American army when, at the end of the turn, 105mm artillery started falling on my position. It seemed to be focused towards the front of my setup, so I ordered the two forward units to withdraw immediately towards the rear units, with the rear units covering. Too bad the artillery was actually directed towards my rear units -- one survivor of a 3/4 strength platoon. Ouch. On a side note, I was glad to see the AI continue to demonstrate intelligent tactics. In this same game I had given them +50%, and they proceeded to send *every*single* infantry down the center in a concentrated charge. It was awesome! (and very successful... so far I have pulled back into the buildings, and am praying the panther arrives soon). Cheers Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Did the same thing only Goanna gets the credit for wiping out ... MY ENTIRE FREAKING LEFT FLANK. lol. Yes, Virginia, I am that stupid. ------------------ We are both men of action. Lies do not become us. — Westley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Hee hee hee. Yup, that was a pretty satisfying ambush, Moriarty. I could see them coming the turn before and caught the negative waves eminating even before the first shot rang out. Give yourself soem credit though, I saw three guys from ones squad crawl off into the wheat before I pissed off prior to the rain coming. And i did lose a guy from My HQ plt. Now to sort out all that added armour that just showed up. Wouldn't a heavy submachine gun squad go down a treat in these woods of VoT? ------------------ desert rat wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 This seems to be a popular tactic I've tried it also. Bottom line was very even on the body count (all 33 of my guys dead with confirmed kills of 34). I don't think it really helped my overall position. However, the AI did 2 things that were rather interesting. First, it spotted my platoon rushing into the woods. Expecting this, I had them run another 150m or so into the forest before starting to sneak. This was fortunate because the AI plastered the edge of the woods with 81mm, apparently on the sound contacts I left there. Second, in the middle of the fight in the woods, at a point where the AI's grunts had pretty well toasted me, down came the densest concentration of smoke I've ever seen. It appeared to be from every 81 and 105 FO involved, maybe even 60mm. It filled the entire forest with AT LEAST 3 individual smoke plumes per tile over most of it. Longest LOS I could get in there was 1m. I was using high detail smoke and it seriously chugged my P2-450. Even switching to low rez smoke didn't help much, so I had to turn the smoke off. ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 I've had that tactic fail miserably and I've had it kind of work. When it kind of worked I slaughtered 2 platoons of Americans and a bunch of support for nary a loss only to get caught in a massive barage with complately shattered my forces there (2 platoons, 1 shreck). I eventually lost the game anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Man, I don't know what's the matter with you guys... I run that maneuver against the AI almost every time and it works like a charm... well, it works unless the FOs spot me and begin dropping arty on the hill. The last time I played VoT as the Germans, I took out 30-something casualties and 2 Shermans while losing only about half or less of my three squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunto Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 Does anyone here ever attack up the german right along those buildings down into the valley and up hill 216 from the NW corner? I've done that. Sometimes you waste that lone ami platoon with an infantry charge across the wheatfield, past the farmhouse and down into the vally on the north. Half of the Amis surrender and the other half get wiped out. Then your two platoons or whatever face a very harsh ami counterattack. The AI definitely responds to a hard-charging german assault along the north. Once my pillbox took out all 6 shermans and I took 216 at the end with 2 platoons who'd been down in that valley east of 216 stretched back into those woods south of the wheatfield... that's a standard german gambit isn't it? Put about 1 platoon in the woods south of the wheatfield, and another on the crest overlooking that deep bowl east of 216 (looking from still further east on the crest). On turn 1 the units on the crest of the bowl charge down and take the woods and the heavy building. Didn't one poster copmlain about that particular scenario, where the foxholes give the troop movement away? A way around that is to put all of your foxholes in woods i suppose. Anyway, in that battle where 6 shermans littered a fairly narrow kill zone i took 216 but still didn't win big. The amis were broken everywhere on the map but were making a desperate assault on 209 across the way. 2/3 of that reinforcement platoon had been wiped out atop 209. It was a narrow ami victory i believe. At the end i was counting flags and the amis had the plomville flag and the 209 flag was uncontrolled. I looked at 216 and realized it had no flag... shucky darns... 216 just isn't worth it after all i guess... it's still a blast to be hitting the amis with a panther and an MG42 you dragged up there. andy salute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 While most of us have attempted the rush on the German left, Bauhaus' rush was a little different. Just to make it sporting, he waited a turn before starting the rush. Don't worry, I already pinned the Order Of The Bonehead on his chest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted May 31, 2000 Author Share Posted May 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: While most of us have attempted the rush on the German left, Bauhaus' rush was a little different. Just to make it sporting, he waited a turn before starting the rush. Don't worry, I already pinned the Order Of The Bonehead on his chest <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, the Military Penis is correct. I waited a turn, cause I was going to ambush him, then grew impatient. When you play against Herr General Gotz1eye you tend to out think yourself. In hindsight, I blew it, to put it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 I've been able to "fake out" the Ami artillery (AI) in VoT by sending a lone schreck team into the open, and then have him pause in the clearing for a few seconds. After I'm assured that the Ami's have every last artillery battery pointed at him, I have him run like hell for a clump of trees (and then sneak out the back side). 9 times out of 10, the Ami's waste a ton of artillery on empty woods. Just need to make sure the MG's don't get the schreck first I wonder how many people this would work on in a PBEM? Anyone had something like this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted May 31, 2000 Share Posted May 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Does anyone here ever attack up the german right along those buildings down into the valley and up hill 216 from the NW corner<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, that's better IMHO than going through the woods on the German left. If you can get to the woods in the NW corner of the map, you have a pretty clear shot to the summit of Hill 216. If you get up there, you will either kill or scare away any FOs up there. But after that you can be in serious trouble--very hard to get down from there safely. ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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