Master Bates Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 So far I am quite dissatisfied with PBM on Combat Mission. This is more a criticism of the method rather than the game, and I have 2 annoying bug bears. 1) I will always aim for 2 responses/moves a day. So it's irritating when people start off by saying "I want XY troops and I will send one PBM file a day." Perhaps bad manners/forgetfulness are more prevelant in the CM community than in others. The Myth 2 community are scrupulous about informing other players when they cannot attend tournaments and Order games. 2) The other problem is the structure of CM ladders and tournaments. When someone says "the ladder" what ladder are they referring to? It would be cool if someone can create a presentable and functional ladder system in a website which loads in less than an hour which bears in mind that CM is a computer game, not a shrunken piece of WW2 reality which ships on a compact disc. These gripes aside, CM is a fun, well-balanced game with great sound and expandability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Your issues are nothing to do with Big Time Software. All ladders and tournaments are run by third parties, so if they're not perfect, you're not being ripped off - if you find them useful, use them, and if you don't, don't, it's not like you've paid for them. Just wanted to clear that up. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Okay, I think I'm confused but maybe I'm confused about that too. 1) It's nice that you are willing/able to do 2 turns a day. Others don't have that ability and are trying to inform you of that so that you don't expect more. I fail to see how that's "bad manners". Second, wouldn't it be better to know upfront that a player (for whatever reason) prefers to play one side or the other? How is that bad manners? Third, where/how many times did you see this happening? The requests I've seen for PBEM games have always been reasonable. 2) Are you asking about the ladders that are available or are you complaining about one of the ladders? Keep in mind that BTS is not in the "ladder" business, they are in the "a shrunken piece of WW2 reality which ships on a compact disc" business. This is the BTS forum, and while mention is certainly made of ladders and campaigns and so forth it's not their job to do that. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 1) I guess the thing to do is just post what kind of PBEM game you’re looking for. Why is it bad manners to say how many turns a day you can do and someone has to choose a side. You can always decline a game. 2) Start your own ladder/tournament. Several people here have done just that. “Perhaps bad manners/forgetfulness are more prevalent in the CM community than in others.” “….. which bears in mind that CM is a computer game, not a shrunken piece of WW2 reality which ships on a compact disc.” These don’t sound like gripes they sound more like provocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted August 31, 2000 Author Share Posted August 31, 2000 I never mentioned BTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Clark Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Heck, when I was doing PBEM in the Talonsoft Civil War, we were typically doing one or two turns per week. I can see with CM doing 60 seconds turns that it would be frustrating to drag that out over an extended period of time. But that's the way all PBEM works, it's up to the participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: Perhaps bad manners/forgetfulness are more prevelant in the CM community than in others. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> First of all, you've gotta be kidding me. I dunno what kind of cyberspace nirvana you've been hanging out in, but this is by far, by far the most adult, polite online community I've ever been a part of. Okay, now to answer your points. Point 1) If you don't like the people you're playing with, play other people. And as Joe said, some of us don't have the time to play more than a turn a day. When you're working, and trying to play 5 or 6 PBEM games at once, time becomes a luxury. If you want to restrict your opponents to those who can handle more than 1 turn/day, that is of course your perogative. Do not, however, expect others to have the same schedule as you. As for your issue with force selection - some people have preferences as to which side they play. And since you've gotta choose sides somehow, I don't see what the problem is. Also remember that CM, like many wargames, has a far more international player base than most mainstream games. Many CM players don't speak English as their first language. What you see as rudeness might just be someone trying to be as clear as possible in a language they don't speak very well. Point 2) At this time, there are four CM ladders: the CMHQ ladder, the Rugged Defense ladder, the Grognard's ladder, and the Tournament House ladder. The first 3 are on the CM webring. I'm not sure of Tournament House's address, but it won't be difficult to find. If you can't find, out of four potential CM ladders, one that suits you, may I submit that you're being too picky? In addition, I have never experienced long load times with any of the ladders, and this is with AOL, which tends to be synonymous with long load times. You mentioned Myth in your post. Keep in mind that BTS is not Bungie. Bungie can hire web designers and online guys and all that stuff, and that's fine. BTS is two guys, and I would much rather see them work on patches and CM2 than put together some fancy ladder with all the bells and whistles. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. [This message has been edited by Chupacabra (edited 08-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Master Bates wrote: > I never mentioned BTS. And I said "Just wanted to clear that up". I did not say "So get your facts straight". From your complaints, and especially your title, it wasn't entirely clear who exactly you were complaining to. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infohawk Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: I never mentioned BTS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You are right. (Sorry for waisting space, it was just glaring out at me). Responses like the one you got lead to people misunderstanding what you were trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted August 31, 2000 Author Share Posted August 31, 2000 Well, not quite . It's just easy to get pissed off when you spend 25 minutes carefully buying and then placing units, only for the game to petter out because your opponent is basically lazy. Why should I have to bloody well remind them every 3 turns that there is a game going on?? As regards the other ladders, it seems that they all want "de-briefings" or "reports". So after waiting 12 hours for 60 measly seconds of action, I have to write a journal on it. Grrrreat!! I can't understand this, I mean BTS would have to simulate supply chains to the front line and hospitals and everything to complete this level of pedantary. I'll have one last look for a decent ladder then I'll either give up or start my own one, where players submit moves to the organiser, which are then promptly emailed to the other participant. This could probably be done with a bit of code providing players submit moves to a website or something. Why not do that and have "Killer move of the week", a movie file which people could download. I would get rid of all this "ooh it's a simulation" pussy footing, and I would have a film pack of rubbish moves etc. coupled with a league of the best and worst players. All that's needed is a one page ladder site with a white background and some good, fast loading GIFs. Anyway rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Bates, For people not used to PBEM games, some players can indeed be annoying. You mentioned Myth 2, and I have played the prequel of the game extensively in its time. I understand where you're coming from, I would like the option to sit down and play a game in a sitting. I have a few opponenets myself who can only play 1-2 turns max a day. I try to make the best of it by finding more players to keep me busy BTW, if you're looking for players who can devote time to playing several turns in a sitting, e-mail me at sword_lover@hotmail.com or ICQ me at 26953512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Speaking of email,do I receive another mail from you today? File 17 was the last I sent you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: It's just easy to get pissed off when you spend 25 minutes carefully buying and then placing units, only for the game to petter out because your opponent is basically lazy. Why should I have to bloody well remind them every 3 turns that there is a game going on?? As regards the other ladders, it seems that they all want "de-briefings" or "reports". So after waiting 12 hours for 60 measly seconds of action, I have to write a journal on it. Grrrreat!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> First, let me ask you a few questions, and don't take them as personal attacks, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. Question 1: what's the maximum number of PBEM games you have played at the same time? Question 2: are you currently employed full-time? Question 3: what ladders are you referring to, exactly? The point of my first two questions was to say that if you are playing 5 or 6 (or more) games of CM simultaneously with different opponents, and you are trying to fit these games in around an 8-hour workday, it is in fact very easy to lose track of which files you need to send to whom. This is not an issue of rudeness or laziness, as you say it is, but rather one of too much to do and too little time in which to do it. Again, I don't know what ladder you're talking about, but the one I'm a member of certainly doesn't require any kind of detailed debriefing or AAR, just an email sent to the moderator saying who won and who lost. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted August 31, 2000 Author Share Posted August 31, 2000 Commissar, I would be happy with 1 turn a year, if that is what I have been promised. At the moment I am downloading megabytes of game information for mere seconds of a game which won't be finished or trundles along at half the agreed pace. I won't be too unhappy if I never play another PBM game again. As far as I can see, ICQ is the only viable CM multi-player option. I just think that at 400k for 60 seconds of action, it's just not worth it. As a multi-player gaming experience, until TCP/IP arrives, CM is not good value. Especially since once yer tanks are blown, it's Game Over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: As a multi-player gaming experience, until TCP/IP arrives, CM is not good value. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Your opinion. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Especially since once yer tanks are blown, it's Game Over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If only all my opponents thought that way. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. [This message has been edited by Chupacabra (edited 08-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Especially since once yer tanks are blown, it's Game Over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you kidding? That's when the fun starts. Now mind you I'd rather have tanks than not, but just because you've lost your armor is NO reason to pack it in. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: 1) I will always aim for 2 responses/moves a day. So it's irritating when people start off by saying "I want XY troops and I will send one PBM file a day." Perhaps bad manners/forgetfulness are more prevelant in the CM community than in others. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, and lately it has been getting worse... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Bates: The Myth 2 community are scrupulous about informing other players when they cannot attend tournaments and Order games.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL. Evidently you and I move in quite different circles on b.net. But seriously, the people I play via email with are quite good about letting me know when they're likely to be unavailable for a bit. I like to think I do a good job of that as well. And while they may express a preference for a particular side/formation type, they all seem amenable to changing up, or alternating picks. Perhaps you need to expand your circle of PBEM opponents. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Especially since once yer tanks are blown, it's Game Over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I second Chupa's comment on this. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 I have to agree that it takes long to do a pbem with cm. Especially if you compare it wit tacops. Is it possible to change the handling of pbemfiles like it goes with Tacops? Now you have to send a file for all actions. One for giving orders,one for the orders of your opponent and so on. A tacops pbem is much more easier,you load the file of your opponent and push the combat button. When the turn is over you give your orders and sent them to your opponent. That's all. But TCP/IP and cm 2 are more important so untill that time,just wait and see what happens. Henk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 The PBEM is slower on Combat Mission than on other turn based games, because it takes 3 e-mail per one turn. TCP/IP is not the answer, because it requires both players to be online all the time. The real solution would be a dedicated PBEM server, which would receive e-mails from each player (one per player), then calculate the battle, and then send the e-mails back. Stars (a galactic stragegy game) has this feature (run by independent persons), and this is something that Big Time Software should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 What exactly is the point in all this, Bates? Your PBEM experience is dependent on the kind of people you play against. There's no point bitching here about your PBEM opponents - if you've got a problem, either take it up with them, or find someone else. Telling us about it serves no purpose whatsoever - it's like complaining to your local grocery store that you don't like the other people you see shopping there. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Are you kidding? That's when the fun starts. Now mind you I'd rather have tanks than not, but just because you've lost your armor is NO reason to pack it in. Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Joe, remember *snip*? And I did not even have tanks at the beginning and still beat you around the map with your guns and Panthers and whatnot... Gee that was fun... ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted August 31, 2000 Author Share Posted August 31, 2000 Maybe I'll do an automated site for ICQ players. So, someone wanting a partner will post that they are available for a 18 turn game from 10.00am to 1.00pm. I'll produce a mock-up in photoshop and post it to the forum, see what other players think. It would be for casual players (no ladder system). Probably be hosting on something like Geocities, but with no pop up windows. Sound good?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 Oh yeah, trying playing with someone a quarter way around the world. Damn. Sometimes those timezones just don't match up right. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: What exactly is the point in all this, Bates? Your PBEM experience is dependent on the kind of people you play against. There's no point bitching here about your PBEM opponents - if you've got a problem, either take it up with them, or find someone else. Telling us about it serves no purpose whatsoever - it's like complaining to your local grocery store that you don't like the other people you see shopping there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Come on! People vent on this board all the time for things that aren't going to be changed. He's letting his opinion be known, big deal. It wasn't over-the-top, insulting or vulger. At the very least it lets others on the board who play PBEM know if they fit his game 'type'. Cav ------------------ "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." --Bertrand Russell "God is always with the strongest battalions." --Frederick the Great "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759 "For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-Jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary period, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which is likely to be the more ominous for the Axis--an American decision that this is sport, or that it is business." --D. W. Brogan, The American Character [This message has been edited by CavScout (edited 08-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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