LOS issue with FO? New user wondering what to expect from the game engine?

[Sweed59]

Playing the Summer of Destruction user campaign from Mr. X. I have an issue where I have spotted a bunker first with a two man team and then my FO but can't keep LOS to order a mortar of Inf gun to take it out. Here's the situation..

Two man split scout team spots bunker, at approx. 180 meters, while hunting through some forest. The bunker is fully visible with red bunker icon if I pause the playback. The team loses sight as it continues on it's path, but stops it's move after a few more steps. I leave that team in position and have a FO close by as I had an earlier unconfirmed bunker icon. My FO follows the path of the team and stops where the team had spotted the bunker. As the FO moves into the spot the bunker becomes fully visible and I'm thinking "I gotcha".  However the FO goes prone and loses sight. 

I tried moving the FO on the next turn to a "better spot" with the same result. IE FO sees the bunker while moving and then loses sight again as they go prone. I then tried a longer path to try to get closer using hunt.  The result was almost as soon as he stood up he saw the bunker, stopping his hunt move, and went back to prone. My question is..  if I leave the FO in his current position is there a chance he will see the bunker from this prone position as he is still "spotting"? 

In the end I would think since the FO was hunting and spotted a target he would\should have kept the bunker in sight.  I'm just not sure how to proceed without having a lot of experience with the game engine? Leave him where he's at and hope he spots it again from that position? (in the lower left corner of the screen his action is still described as "spotting"). Or since he's prone and lost sight is a re-spotting "never going to happen"?  Leaving move him again as the only option and hope to get a position where going prone wont' break the LOS?

Thanks for any insights on what to expect or how to proceed. 

 

 

[George MC]

You could try a short target cover arc (that for sure does not cover any enemy) move on hunt (using series of short hunt command waypoints) but put a ‘pause’ command at one of the <short> hunt commands. They’ll move forward ignoring observed enemy. Once hit the phase they’ll take a knee. You should - depending on terrain - have LOS. Sometimes terrain such as grain fields can be problematic. 

[Sweed59]

I would not have thought of using a cover arch.

Thank you so much for the advice.

 

[Warts 'n' all]

Which mission are you playing? And do you have any screenshots?

[chuckdyke]

8 hours ago, Sweed59 said:

In the end I would think since the FO was hunting and spotted a target he would\should have kept the bunker in sight. 

In SF2 Edge of Darkness I had the same. Sniper Spots the FO next to him doesn't he just keeps a very strong tentative contact. I think it may have been designed that way. My thinking is as follows, the task of the FO to call a fire mission. He doesn't need a full contact, so the TacAI find a spot in the 8 M² square to stay out of LOS. I tested this over 5 turns and the square selected provided concealment. The sniper took shots at the bunker and took out one Red Soldier inside but gave his position away. 

[Erwin]

LOS in CM can be very tricky.  One way to maintain LOS and stop your unit from going prone and losing LOS is to PAUSE it in mid-movement.  But, that means being able to time the move so that it spots the enemy unit at the moment the turn ends (am assuming you are using WEGO), and ordering a PAUSE that starts at the beginning of the next turn.

[Sweed59]

Thanks to all that responded. And to answer Erwin's question, yes I am playing WEGO. 

The short move, short target arc, and pause worked and the FO has called in a mortar to take out the bunker. 

For any in the future that may be searching for an answer and find this post I'll leave some detail on what I did.

From my previous turn I had an idea where I needed to be to get LOS. I set my target arc in line with the reported bunker position, but well short and where I was certain no enemies would show up. I set two short hunt moves and checked LOS from both with both showing a successful view. I put a full pause command on the first waypoint and ran the turn. As my FO reached the first waypoint he had spotted the bunker. Not sure if this was luck in timing as it was very near the end of the turn? The turn ended and the bunker was still in full view from my FO's position. On the next order phase I was able to call in a mortar strike. 

I picked up complete additions of all of the WWII titles around Christmas and then the new BN Battle pack 2. I'm learning the game and trying to figure out some of it's quirks and the ways one has to command units to get the desired result.  In one of my earlier games I had a truck loaded with troops driving away, which wasn't cool as I had anticipated the troops dismounting before the truck moved   .  But I'm getting better and enjoying the ride. 

 

 

 

[Sweed59]

14 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

In SF2 Edge of Darkness I had the same. Sniper Spots the FO next to him doesn't he just keeps a very strong tentative contact. I think it may have been designed that way. My thinking is as follows, the task of the FO to call a fire mission. He doesn't need a full contact, so the TacAI find a spot in the 8 M² square to stay out of LOS. I tested this over 5 turns and the square selected provided concealment. The sniper took shots at the bunker and took out one Red Soldier inside but gave his position away. 

There may be some truth in this. With my FO prone and no full spotting of the bunker he was always able to see a spot within the 8m area that he could use to call in a strike.

Being a "newb" I wasn't sure if this type of fire mission was a good idea,  was going to have a chance of success, or how many spotting rounds it might waste to get a result. So I found myself wondering.. do I call in a strike and see what happens, or continue to move my FO hoping for a better LOS? Rather than playing that guessing game I came here hoping to learn from the veterans on these boards.  I think I made the best choice, you guys were all very helpful. 

[Sweed59]

17 hours ago, Warts &#x27;n&#x27; all said:

Which mission are you playing? And do you have any screenshots?

I'm at "Berlov's War" the third battle. No on the screenshots. I have the Steam version and unfortunately their default for a screenshot is f12. I tried changing that on Steam to another function key but it doesn't produce a picture. I'm "untrained" but fairly proficient at doing things on my pc, and minus a dedicated screenshot feature in a game, I have always used  print-screen\paste to put an image into Paintshop Pro then edit\save from there.  This doesn't work for me with CM.  I know there are other apps that can get screens but I have never looked into them.  

[Bearstronaut]

3 hours ago, Sweed59 said:

There may be some truth in this. With my FO prone and no full spotting of the bunker he was always able to see a spot within the 8m area that he could use to call in a strike.

Being a "newb" I wasn't sure if this type of fire mission was a good idea,  was going to have a chance of success, or how many spotting rounds it might waste to get a result. So I found myself wondering.. do I call in a strike and see what happens, or continue to move my FO hoping for a better LOS? Rather than playing that guessing game I came here hoping to learn from the veterans on these boards.  I think I made the best choice, you guys were all very helpful. 

Don't use mortars on bunkers. It's a waste of ammunition. Even heavier caliber artillery is hit or miss when targeting bunkers and I never try to destroy bunkers that way. Your best bet is direct fire from a tank or assault gun or getting infantry close enough to destroy it with grenades.

[Sweed59]

1 hour ago, Bearstronaut said:

Don't use mortars on bunkers. It's a waste of ammunition. Even heavier caliber artillery is hit or miss when targeting bunkers and I never try to destroy bunkers that way. Your best bet is direct fire from a tank or assault gun or getting infantry close enough to destroy it with grenades.

It's a wood bunker, does that make a difference in your advice? I am new and still learning but thought an 81mm would do the job on wood?   

I also have a squad near enough that I thought about smoke and assault.  I also thought about smoke and moving up a Stugg to do the job, just not sure of any AT guns that could be in the area.  I have time to adjust or change the fire mission to smoke and go with another option. I'll contemplate the situation before firing up the game and make a decision then.  Part of the fun of being new is learning what will or won't work. 

[Bearstronaut]

8 minutes ago, Sweed59 said:

It's a wood bunker, does that make a difference in your advice? I am new and still learning but thought an 81mm would do the job on wood?   

No. You might get lucky and get a hit on the bunker opening that kills some of the occupants but frankly it's not worth the ammo expenditure. Save your mortar rounds for AT guns or MG teams.

[Sweed59]

1 minute ago, Bearstronaut said:

No. You might get lucky and get a hit on the bunker opening that kills some of the occupants but frankly it's not worth the ammo expenditure. Save your mortar rounds for AT guns or MG teams.

Thanks. 

[chuckdyke]

6 hours ago, Sweed59 said:

I'm at "Berlov's War" the third battle. No on the screenshots. I have the Steam version and unfortunately their default for a screenshot is f12. I tried changing that on Steam to another function key but it doesn't produce a picture. I'm "untrained" but fairly proficient at doing things on my pc, and minus a dedicated screenshot feature in a game, I have always used  print-screen\paste to put an image into Paintshop Pro then edit\save from there.  This doesn't work for me with CM.  I know there are other apps that can get screens but I have never looked into them.  

Windows+G Gives you the X-Box Feature which I found useful. Unfortunately, the resolution is too high for this forum, so you won't be able to post them here. I stopped for that reason my contributions here. 

[Sweed59]

30 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Windows+G Gives you the X-Box Feature which I found useful. Unfortunately, the resolution is too high for this forum, so you won't be able to post them here. I stopped for that reason my contributions here. 

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[chuckdyke]

17 minutes ago, Sweed59 said:

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Sometimes it doesn't work at the first go but just try again when it says unsupported. 

[A Canadian Cat]

On 6/23/2024 at 11:45 AM, Sweed59 said:

FO sees the bunker while moving and then loses sight again as they go prone.

One other thing that might work is that an FO (and mortar teams shooting direct) can call / target things that are just out of view for them. I am unsure if this would have worked in your situation but calling a points strike on the place you know a bunker is located, is just as effective as calling it on a bunker your FO can fully see. 

I know this works for targets just over a hill crest or behind a wall for example.

[Sweed59]

4 hours ago, A Canadian Cat said:

One other thing that might work is that an FO (and mortar teams shooting direct) can call / target things that are just out of view for them. I am unsure if this would have worked in your situation but calling a points strike on the place you know a bunker is located, is just as effective as calling it on a bunker your FO can fully see. 

I know this works for targets just over a hill crest or behind a wall for example.

Interesting because after the bunker turned from solid contact to an icon I could have set a point strike right next to the bunker icon.  I wondered if that would be affective and should have mentioned it in my first post.  I'll definitely keep your post in mind for the next time I run into this situation and call in a strike to see what happens.

Thank you for the advice.  

[PEB14]

6 hours ago, Sweed59 said:

Interesting because after the bunker turned from solid contact to an icon I could have set a point strike right next to the bunker icon.  I wondered if that would be affective and should have mentioned it in my first post.  I'll definitely keep your post in mind for the next time I run into this situation and call in a strike to see what happens.

Thank you for the advice.  

Beware! I'm playing the same campaign as you do and I'm also trying to hammer those partisans positions with offboard artillery. Unfortunately, yesterday a 81 mm mortar spotting round fell just on top of my FO team instead of the enemy. Now I ain't got no FO team anymore...

F*** short LOS in those f*** dense, marshy forests!!!

[Sweed59]

5 hours ago, PEB14 said:

Beware! I'm playing the same campaign as you do and I'm also trying to hammer those partisans positions with offboard artillery. Unfortunately, yesterday a 81 mm mortar spotting round fell just on top of my FO team instead of the enemy. Now I ain't got no FO team anymore...

F*** short LOS in those f*** dense, marshy forests!!!

I laughed. I know I wasn't supposed to, but I did. 

 

[PEB14]

1 hour ago, Sweed59 said:

I laughed. I know I wasn't supposed to, but I did. 

 

Wait for it to happen to yours...

By the way, in several of the "Partisan Land" scenarios, the player has plenty of artillery support but very short LOS. The balance between friendly fire and enemy losses caused by German artillery is not always very positive...

[Sweed59]

I'm sure I'll blunder into some bad results.  -   Right now I'm still advancing and trying to make contact with the enemy. Tension is building. 

[PEB14]

1 hour ago, Sweed59 said:

I'm sure I'll blunder into some bad results.  -   Right now I'm still advancing and trying to make contact with the enemy. Tension is building. 

Which scenario?

[Sweed59]

35 minutes ago, PEB14 said:

Which scenario?

Third battle, Berlov's War. 

I play slowly.  Lot's of days two turns, but some days only one. Then I have to watch the replay from each platoon or team perspective, the area where I called in mortars during setup, and a replay with the whole map to see the big picture. I know the young crowd complain on Steam about the "dated graphics" but I think they're just fine and I spend entirely too much time getting in close when watching my troops. At some time I may hit the wall on wanting\needing to zoom in and only use that for firefights and other enemy contact, and do more watching the big picture from above. It would surely save me a lot of time.