George MC Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) How To Enjoy Hassle Free Convoying in CM. https://youtu.be/3Lz97ZDXSWs The video uses Red Thunder but techniques shown apply equally to all the CM games. Edited March 21 by George MC 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 As mentioned earlier, in addition to pauses one can also give each successive vehicle a different movement speed (until the initial waypoint). That will enable a more subtle separation than the 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45 second pauses that are available. Also, as roads can usually accommodate two vehicles side by side, you can stagger the vehicles along a road, one on each side of the road with maybe a 10 meter separation. This works well when one has a large number of vehicles on the road, not just the 4 in the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 6 minutes ago, Erwin said: As mentioned earlier, in addition to pauses one can also give each successive vehicle a different movement speed (until the initial waypoint). That will enable a more subtle separation than the 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45 second pauses that are available. Also, as roads can usually accommodate two vehicles side by side, you can stagger the vehicles along a road, one on each side of the road with maybe a 10 meter separation. This works well when one has a large number of vehicles on the road, not just the 4 in the video. For sure. There are many ways to skin a cat! The vid is aimed at those new to CM so I went for simple - as the method I tend to use is less prone to clusterfukcs plus keeps the video short! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Agreed... that video is hopefully useful for newbies. Thanx George... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Convoys and road marches have always been possible in CM. My main issue is just the number of clicks and the significant care needed in plotting each individual unit. The pauses really help in limiting bunch ups. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 It is actually keeping waypoints to a minimum by knowing when the convoy stays on the road and when it doesn't. Attack on Son Battle for Normandy if you play Germans the first bridge is horrible and I found my carefully plotted waypoints changing position in the following turns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I never place waypoints directly on road corners, only before and after them. IMO the units drive smoother around corners this way, and dont lose as much speed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Agreed. Unless it is a gentle bend in the road, it helps to make two waypoints at every turn. Three if moving FAST. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 (edited) 4 hours ago, Artkin said: I never place waypoints directly on road corners, only before and after them. IMO the units drive smoother around corners this way, and dont lose as much speed. For 90 degree bends agreed. For curving corners makes no odds - the TacAI adjusts speed accordingly. If moving a lot of units in a convoy doing this will take forever. My approach enables the player to moves lots of stuff with min. effort. Its also simple (like me!) so IMO works well for thsoe new to CM. There are LOTS of ways to achieve the desired endstate of a traffic jam free convoy. Usually for a convoy I'm less concerned re speed and more the unit makes it to where I want em to be without creating a clusterfcuk down the road... At heart I'm a lazy bugger As I tend to play larger actions I tend to less micromanaging and tend to go with stuff that reduces the overall work load and achieves the desired effect. The great thing is the game accommodates lots of different styles and every player evolves their own style to managing the admin associated with making stuff move and fight from point A to point B. Edited March 22 by George MC 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Traffic management for speed on a large map becomes important when playing H2H - esp MEETING ENGAGEMENTS when you want to get to a location as fast as possible - and therefore you don't want vehicles to slow down at bends in the road. In those situations am often traveling FAST and using 2 waypoints at every bend that is 60 degrees or more. (Yes, it is a PITA and a clickfest - as is trying to give new covered arcs to tanks at every waypoint. It was easier in CM1 cos CM1 had a "one-click 180 degree arc" feature.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 6 hours ago, Erwin said: Traffic management for speed on a large map becomes important when playing H2H - esp MEETING ENGAGEMENTS when you want to get to a location as fast as possible - and therefore you don't want vehicles to slow down at bends in the road. In those situations am often traveling FAST and using 2 waypoints at every bend that is 60 degrees or more. (Yes, it is a PITA and a clickfest - as is trying to give new covered arcs to tanks at every waypoint. It was easier in CM1 cos CM1 had a "one-click 180 degree arc" feature.) I can't say I've noticed any difference in speed re vehicles turning corners related to how may movement points you've plotted. How many movement points you can plot on a bend does really depend on the underlaying action grid. Some corners you can easily places three points - one before the corner, one on the corner and one after the corner. Others less so. I've not done any serious testing as my impression over the years is the AI tends to smooth the turn out anyways. The key thing being keeping the vehicle on the actual road surface hence being precise where you place the movement point. If its a really tight turn the AI will automatically slow down as it negotiates the corner just as it does on bridges. Out of curiosity I ran a quick and dirty 'test' and I placed three way points on a 45 deg corner as best I could (see my comment above re action grids and placing movement points) and watched the vehicles ( 2 x T-70 on fast) and I noticed no difference in speeds or pathing with both vehicles negotiating a 45 degree bend. I run it a few times (okay not really a formal test just quick and dirty to double check what I thin happens with what happens). Like lighter wheeled vehicles might negotiate corners better (as tanks have to pivot turn). If there is any difference and there might be in terms of smoother pathing (maybe...) its really negligible IMO and arguably not worth the additional effort. I mean bends on CM roads come in three flavours - 90 deg, 45 deg and 60 deg. So maybe there is some advantage in 90 degree bends but again the AI will automatically slow down if hurtling along at 'fast' to negotiate the bend. I've uploaded my wee test file. Just open the scenario (its a save file) and watch the T-70s (both regular) negotiate the 45 deg corner. Like if you feel it makes a difference, then fair play - marginal gains and all that in competitive play - but for me there is no appreciable advantage as the AI in anycase and regardless of how may movement points placed at the corner will slow down to negotiate the corner, so I'll stick wi ma lazy boy way Mit Karacho 008.bts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I just checked it, big difference for me. Vehicles which are approaching a single waypoint corner seem to slow down more first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Top road had two waypoints, bottom only one. It's not even close! Keep in mind the vehicles on the top are keeping their speed so the difference is larger than the pictures show (Except for the last vehicles in the last picture). I used CMPE because the vehicles have very fast movement speeds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 (edited) Cool! Every day is a school day Yup modern wheeled vehicles. As I said I hadn’t tested them - as context of my very limited ‘test’ was WWII tanks on a snow covered dirt road. I take the point re speed on corners for wheeled vehicles. I don’t play CMPE and defo don’t really played wheeled vehicles. So I’ll put my hands up here. Just to recap the video was for novices to give them a simple way to create a convoy that did not jam up or at least reduced the possibility. I fully appreciate experienced players will fully leverage advantages such as speed on various road types in the game accepting additional complexity. Edited March 24 by George MC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Thank you for doing the test Artkin... My sense is that with two waypoints all vehicles (incl tracked) will better maintain their speed. However, I was surprised that your test showed that two waypoints had an effect with a 30-60 degree bend. as I would only bother using two waypoints with a 90+ degree bend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flibby Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 This is not to disparage the information provided by George.. It is fairly damning however that in 2024 a computer simulation has not been developed in such a way as to remove the utter tedium of something as simple as moving a convoy of vehicles down a road. The lack of sensible automation of repetitive tasks is one of the reasons that I find myself playing less and less of the game that I would love to be able to dedicate more time to. I should be able to focus on the tactical development of the battle without having to oversee whether a BMP is going to try to drive through an impassable tile and get stuck unless I rigorously determine its path in advance. Perhaps by the time I reach retirement I will have the time to do so unless It's been resolved by then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 8 hours ago, Flibby said: It is fairly damning however that in 2024 a computer simulation It has been developed. Its just not this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flibby Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 14 hours ago, Thewood1 said: It has been developed. Its just not this one. If there was a better alternative I'd be there, not here. Mius Front for example takes away the micromanagement but doesn't leave a satisfactory tactical simulation behind as it's too abstract. If that's not your example, I'm still fairly sure I've played and discounted it too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Steel Beasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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