Firing a small "panzerfaust on tank

[AdamPraha]

I can't get a picture of the game. I don't know what button to use to take the picture.
Anyway, at 120 meters, those fools are firing rifles at the tanks. I've tried typing in the designation "target armor...

I dragged 4 tanks with this purple paint and those idiots didn't even take off their "panzerfaust and already firing from his own infantry rifles.

They should have taken the "panzerfaust" off their backs and "take them out...  all at once.

Edited March 13 by AdamPraha

[Vacillator]

I'm not sure I'm following this fully, but even the late war biggest PFs only had 100m range (the early ones much less).  So they won't fire at a range of 120m.  Rifles might be firing if for example the tank is unbuttoned and Tank Commander is presenting a target?

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding...

A picture would help.  I use Nvidia screen capture, put it on Imgur and then post the direct link here.  A bit of an exercise but worth it.  Others do it differently.

[Brille]

When the "target armor" arc is applied the infantry should only use weapons that can hurt tanks, if they are in range that is.

Could it be that your soldiers have some riflegrenades and the respective launcher unit attached ? Though very inacurate and probably not very effective they will happily use these grenades to engage tanks. It might look like the soldiers would fire their rifles while actually lobbing a riflegrenade at the tanks.

The Panzerfausts are not usable at this range. The effective range of each faust is implied in their name: Panzerfaust 30= 30m, Panzerfaust 60= 60m, Panzerfaust 100=100m.

[PEB14]

I've definitively never seen infantry firing at tanks with weapons uable to hurt them! As @Brillepoints out, they're certainly targeting an exposed tank commander!

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

I had a PF60 fire at a tank just the other day in a PBEM, in fact I've seen 4 fired in the battle so far. It's likely they were out of range, as @Vacillator says max range was 100m. Only one of them has actually hit and it didn't actually KO the panzer but that's another issue

 

Edited March 14 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Vacillator]

4 hours ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

it didn't actually KO the panzer but that's another issue

Looks like Russkies using captured PFs?  I'm sure there's a degradation in performance for that in 'the code' .

Upper hull penetration on the side of a Panzer IV, but no KO?  Really?

[Brille]

5 hours ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

I had a PF60 fire at a tank just the other day in a PBEM, in fact I've seen 4 fired in the battle so far. It's likely they were out of range, as @Vacillator says max range was 100m. Only one of them has actually hit and it didn't actually KO the panzer but that's another issue

 

Panzerfausts are nothing like the RPG7 or other modern rocket launchers. They are still pretty inaccurate. So even when the Panzerfaust 60 says that it´s effective range is 60m (though they were also ranged for 80m), one probably should use them at even lower ranges, especially with troops under veteran experience.

 

You must be pretty unlucky there I guess. Usually a Panzerfaust hit means either a destroyed/decrewed tank or a severely damaged one.

 

[Vacillator]

Nice pic!  Did the expected happen?

[AdamPraha]

Hello, gentlemen. Thank you very much for the introduction into problem.

But how do you ban the use of weapons other than heavy weapons?
I want to ban the use of rifles. Only heavy anti-tank weapons!

Edited March 14 by AdamPraha

[chuckdyke]

10 minutes ago, AdamPraha said:

But how do you ban the use of weapons other than heavy weapons?
I want to ban the use of rifles. Only heavy anti-tank weapons!

Split off an AT Team from a section put everybody else on 'Hide' or with a cover-arc. 

[AdamPraha]

5 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Split off an AT Team from a section put everybody else on 'Hide' or with a cover-arc. 

1.) Then the tank team itself I'll also put order" hide...

2.)And paint over enemy tanks with purple paint...?

3.)When they get within range, they'll start firing the panzerfaust themselves?

 

Or do I have to give them the order to stop hiding manually ?

Edited March 14 by AdamPraha

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

4 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Looks like Russkies using captured PFs?  I'm sure there's a degradation in performance for that in 'the code' .

Upper hull penetration on the side of a Panzer IV, but no KO?  Really?

The team had two fausts, the first went over the top of the panzer (as expected) but the second hit and the crew bailed out. I had it marked down as dead but next turn the crew popped back in and started blasting away. I can't remember seeing that happen too often in all my years playing, I think it must have hit something squishy as only 4 crew got out (and back in again).

3 hours ago, Brille said:

Panzerfausts are nothing like the RPG7 or other modern rocket launchers. They are still pretty inaccurate. So even when the Panzerfaust 60 says that it´s effective range is 60m (though they were also ranged for 80m), one probably should use them at even lower ranges, especially with troops under veteran experience.

 

You must be pretty unlucky there I guess. Usually a Panzerfaust hit means either a destroyed/decrewed tank or a severely damaged one.

 

The range was about 45-50m if I remember correctly, they were waiting in ambush at the roadside in case he pushed his armour down unsupported. Felt very aggrieved

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

1 hour ago, AdamPraha said:

1.) Then the tank team itself I'll also put order" hide...

2.)And paint over enemy tanks with purple paint...?

3.)When they get within range, they'll start firing the panzerfaust themselves?

 

Or do I have to give them the order to stop hiding manually ?

1) It depends. If they have good concealment then not really necessary to hide especially as tanks don't spot that well.

2) Yes a panzerfaust team with a Target Armour Arc will only shoot the rocket at armour. I can't remember exactly but I think armoured cars and such don't count as armour but half-tracks and tanks do.

3) Yes if the team is hiding and a target comes into the arc and they have a good shot they will unhide and attack.

Target arcs are a good way to make sure supporting assets such as HMGs or rifle squads don't open fire and give away the positions either, just set a small target arc of a few metres and they will not fire at anything outside the arc.

[chuckdyke]

55 minutes ago, AdamPraha said:

3.)When they get within range, they'll start firing the panzerfaust themselves?

Panzerfaust 30 means this Panzerfaust has a tactical range of 30 meters. Yes, give it a tactical cover-arc of a range of 30 meters at 360⁰. Yes, you need to test when the TacAI does the right thing and when it doesn't. I think AT weapons will engage automatically, to do it manually may very well be counterproductive. Example why I play like this I compared Red Thunder with SF2. Often Red Thunder is more effective. I think the reason is often I play with battalion size formations and in SF2 company size. I found in SF2 I micromanaged possibly too much. As in Red Thunder it would be too time consuming. But the best way to find out is to test it yourself. Reason we have many scenarios play against the AI the same scenario and experiment.

[A Canadian Cat]

46 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

1) ... not really necessary to hide especially as tanks don't spot that well.

Don't hide your team when you want them to act. Hiding greatly reduces the team's spotting ability.

46 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

2) Yes a panzerfaust team with a Target Armour Arc will only shoot the rocket at armour.

Unless the armour is unbuttoned. Then they team members will fire small arms at the TC 

46 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

I can't remember exactly but I think armoured cars and such don't count as armour but half-tracks and tanks do.

I am fairly sure that armoured cars count in the armour arc.

46 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

3) Yes if the team is hiding and a target comes into the arc and they have a good shot they will unhide and attack.

Maybe. The risk is they will fail to spot the tank. 

46 minutes ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Target arcs are a good way to make sure supporting assets such as HMGs or rifle squads don't open fire and give away the positions either, just set a small target arc of a few metres and they will not fire at anything outside the arc.

Target arcs are meant to prevent your men from firing. So, use them carefully and sparing.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, A Canadian Cat - was IanL said:

Don't hide your team when you want them to act. Hiding greatly reduces the team's spotting ability.

Hiding also means hold your fire. Hold your fire except in the cover arc. Excellent way to make sure a Panzerfaust doesn't get overambitious. 

[Brille]

8 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Nice pic!  Did the expected happen?

Lets just say the german word "Thommykocher" could be applied to this tank.

8 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

1.) Then the tank team itself I'll also put order" hide

If they have good concealment already I would not do it especially because it hinders their own spotting.

When I use "hide" it is often to force the soldiers into a prone position at areas with low concealment. Sometimes they choose to kneel or to stand which would expose them to much. 

8 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

2.)And paint over enemy tanks with purple paint...?

Not just "paint" over the tanks or at least not in general. Note that the infantry will engage the tank with whatever is in range. So they will use riflegrenades too when they have any which are more or less ineffective against medium tanks. Those can be fired farther than panzerfausts and would expose those soldiers before they have a chance.

 And even Panzerfaust you should not use at the edge of their effective range If you are not desperate enough.

The way I do it is to set a circular armor arc (Press Shift while it is activated) 15 to 30m before the edge of the effective range. For Panzerfaust 60 that would be mostly around 40 or even 30m.

This way the possibility to hit is higher and they may have the chance to get in follow up shots once the tank is in the killzone and the arc canceled.

8 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

3.)When they get within range, they'll start firing the panzerfaust themselves?

Yes. If the infantry sees the tank in the armor arc and it is in range of any AT weapon they have , they will engage.

Just make sure that when you hid those soldiers,that they really have an arc applied.

CM soldiers tend to follow orders strictly as long as they are not put under stress. That means that those hiding fellows probably will stay hidden even If they can see a tank in range when they are left to their own devices.

[AdamPraha]

7 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Hiding also means hold your fire. Hold your fire except in the cover arc. Excellent way to make sure a Panzerfaust doesn't get overambitious. 

That's probably why they were waiting on the floor of the trench. They were probably waiting for him to get closer than 120 meters.
But the computer knows... that's why the tanks didn't go any closer and stayed there.

[Warts 'n' all]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:04 PM, AdamPraha said:

 those idiots 

Are only as idiotic as the person giving them orders. 

[chuckdyke]

15 minutes ago, AdamPraha said:

But the computer knows..

AI Plan. 

[Warts 'n' all]

I didn't do German at school but I think the label reads. "Don't be a plonker. Always read the manual before using whilst playing Combat Mission." Okeh, so I'm paraphrasing just a tad.

 

[Brille]

Little off topic here:

Praise to BFC for the attention to detail:

The Panzerfaust 60 looks pretty much identical to the Panzerfaust 100.

Yet BFC correctly put the different labels on the warheads with their names on it instead of just copy and paste.

This way you can see what soldier is carrying which faust if you look closely (when they are mixed in a squad)

 

[AdamPraha]

4 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Are only as idiotic as the person giving them orders. 

The game does not involve giving any verbal orders.
If there was a written order, I'd give it to them.

If you cannot issue a direct order to attack a single tank. So just stupid AI going to shoot from rifle on tanks. Instead of firing panzerfausts.

 

Edited March 15 by AdamPraha

[AdamPraha]

2 hours ago, Brille said:

Little off topic here:

Praise to BFC for the attention to detail:

The Panzerfaust 60 looks pretty much identical to the Panzerfaust 100.

Yet BFC correctly put the different labels on the warheads with their names on it instead of just copy and paste.

This way you can see what soldier is carrying which faust if you look closely (when they are mixed in a squad)

 

I even checked the serial numbers of the tanks the other day. They had them all the same. One number for all the tanks. 
That's a great detail in a historical game. This written manual on the arms.

[Warts 'n' all]

1 hour ago, AdamPraha said:

The game does not involve giving any verbal orders.
If there was a written order, I'd give it to them.

If you cannot issue a direct order to attack a single tank. So just stupid AI going to shoot from rifle on tanks. Instead of firing panzerfausts.

 

As has been explained to you above. You can't use a panzerfaust on a tank that is outside of the faust's range. Have you actually read the manual?