Movement in Vineyards

[AndrewO]

Haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this. How do you move infantry through Vineyards across "the grain" of the rows of grapes? My guys keep going all the way to the end of the row, around the edge and back along the row to where they were told to go. Is that the way it is or is there a different technique?

[Artkin]

Try setting waypoints through the vineyard, instead of on both sides. That should fix it. Your men will naturally try to take the path of least resistance, so the vineyards probably slow/tire them down quite a bit.

[laurent 22]

Infantry can't cross the rows of vineyard, they go around them. With a tank you can open a passage for the infantry with the risk of 80% that it becomes immobilized.

View waypoint:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/dx8tensu115h8ni/waypoint_FI.jpg/file

[Vacillator]

23 hours ago, laurent 22 said:

Infantry can't cross the rows of vineyard

Good info.  The reasoning seems a little odd to me when a lot of vineyards are like this:

[kohlenklau]

Alright, here is my fictional backstory to all this...

As CMFI was being developed, 2 "high-level" members of the BFC team and their wives took an expense account summer trip to Sicily for "onsite terrain research" and after a few bottles of the local vino they were running around in a vineyard, chasing their lovely brides and the rental car got stuck too. The rest is history.

EDIT: These modern vineyards have a wire or wires stretched down the length. 1943 vineyards I cannot imagine had such wires. But oh well...

EDIT 2: well, maybe a large-scale vineyard DID have such vine support wires in 1943 but maybe not the Mom and Pop backyard vineyards? I was NOT on the "onsite terrain research" boondoggle trip.

Edited December 9, 2022 by kohlenklau

[laurent 22]

Erratum

I tested the passage of vines by the infantry by creating a quick scenario (the other first example is made from the "death to idiots" scenario): the infantry will indeed choose the least complicated path.

- Infantry crosses 1 or 2 rows/square/tile of vines if the edges are far (1 square/tile = visual 3 rows; 2 squares = visual 6 rows etc.. - top picture). If the edges are close, soldiers bypass.

- Infantry bypasses even if the edges are far from 3 rows of vines (bottom picture).

View:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/qq0l9gmy4g76sqm/Vineyard_pass_test.jpg/file

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by laurent 22

[laurent 22]

Last test same map. A vehicle (here universal carrier) makes a pass for the infantry (almost 100% risk of immobilization). The infantry crosses when there is only one or two rows of vines left. In the 1st example with the M10, the infantry bypassed the last rank because its edges were close.

View:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/7t4u486u2p8zwdc/Vignyad_UC_pass.jpg/file

Edited December 9, 2022 by laurent 22

[Ultradave]

The only thing to add to this is that if you include lots of waypoints across a broad vineyard field, the infantry *may* follow your instructions. They may still get partway in, run to the end and go around. There is also greater chance of them going straight across if they are on fast, as opposed to move. But there is a lot of variability in the width of the field, and how close to an end the infantry is, that makes if pretty unpredictable. I don't know of a way to absolutely force them to go across in every circumstance, no matter how many waypoints you use.

Dave

 

[laurent 22]

The 2 variables to know if the infantry crosses or circles:

- the number of rows (2 isolated rows maximum)

- the distance of the ends of the ranks from the position of the soldiers, and therefore the length of the row.

It doesn't depend on the number of waypoints or the type of movement order or the size of the combat group (3 men or 12 men with a small risk for a large group that some will get lost along the way, but so far I haven't had a problem).

A 3rd test: To cross 3 successive ranks or a higher number, the infantry must be advanced by small leaps, one rank after another (10m between waypoints). Be careful if the group of soldiers is not far from one of the ends of a row (about less than 35 m) it goes around the row, even if the crossing points follow one row after another.

In a large square of vineyard (for example 150m x 150m), the soldiers placed in the center can only cross the rows one after the other, and not 2 rows at once. If the waypoint skips a row, soldiers bypass the row through its nearest end (and there is the tragedy: they will turn around, following the row laterally for 80m of our large vineyard, get out and stand in front of the desired row and go up it for 80m. So to advance 20 m the soldiers will do 160m, see picture linked).

About the 1st test and understand the difference, the infantry crosses 2 rows at once because the 2 rows of vines are isolated. There must not be a row adjoining the second.

View large square of vineyard test 3:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/c2lo5os8yy7ic5e/Vinyard_Test_3.jpg/file

The sappers/engineers can also open a passage, one row of vines after another (flamethrower do nothing).

View:

https://www.mediafire.com/view/zbya9znvic1a7ad/Vineyard_engineer.jpg/file

Edited December 10, 2022 by laurent 22