Anonymous_Jonze Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 This all looks amazing, but, how does it run? I'd imagine the frames are pretty low on large maps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 I've become obsessed with the new Herman Goering Strasse Photo and made a mashup up of my map and the original. lol Like I aint got enough to do... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said: This all looks amazing, but, how does it run? I'd imagine the frames are pretty low on large maps May do if you have a really old computer, but runs great on most plus you can change the quality settings?? Try it bud when it comes out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous_Jonze Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, NPye said: May do if you have a really old computer, but runs great on most plus you can change the quality settings?? Try it bud when it comes out. Will do! Very impressive work! I have a decent rig, but I think were all really needing some optimization from Battlefront. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said: Will do! Very impressive work! I have a decent rig, but I think were all really needing some optimization from Battlefront. LOL Oh Yes maybe someday... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous_Jonze Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, NPye said: LOL Oh Yes maybe someday... I think I read awhile back that would be the focus of the 5.0 update once all of the games are ported on to steam. Cross your fingers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 32 minutes ago, NPye said: I've become obsessed with the new Herman Goering Strasse Photo and made a mashup up of my map and the original. lol Like I aint got enough to do... Morning. I´m convinced you´ll get as close to the real thing as one can get with that old game engine Nigel! Still got to try out the Stalingrad one but where do I take the time for it lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 35 minutes ago, NPye said: May do if you have a really old computer, but runs great on most plus you can change the quality settings?? Try it bud when it comes out. I agree. Things may become much more different once you put many units onto the map and play it out. Maybe less of concern for WEGO but RT could be bits of problematic. However... I never play RT so....I don´t care if it goes still image. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said: Okay, so I can fix the jumping by relocating the handle to a spot which I can measure using Harry's very useful gridded grass - place the model where it should be before it jumps; find a nice handle spot on it where it intersects one of the 1m nodes; make a mental note of said spot; into Blender and move the origin to the new spot; test and tweak. No more jumping around. This is good to remember for future use. think that idea was mentioned earlier, but how about adding some visible geometry to the FO origin and placement/rotation point? So one can see that handle during placement phases? Once all is ordered neatly one can replace that FO with original one (no visible handle) again. A non functional lil child object (with META all Zero maybe) might do. For BFC they might do the same but "simply" hide that handle at game start again. One the texture alpha layer methods (visible or non visible = 2 color) might do for that purpose. 1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said: No meta was applied to the sandbag wall, that's just the stock game fortification, purchased and placed, which is why I was surprised to see soft skins just drive on through. Turns out that the fortifications aren't so fortified ... Think the META has no (intended) effects if its actual purpose is tied to original object class, which is "fortification". Hard coded here. But the META still can work, but then properties of the new object class get applied. So then depends where you put it in. (junk, bins, fountains etc.) Some time ago I made some experiments with sandbag walls as well. Some of Meta1_0 to Meta1_2 do something on its large rotational radius. IIRC Meta1_0 is where to set it. (has somewhat different effect than for my shelter tweaks) 1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said: - There's room under the central arches for a modular building, three storey wrecked down to two storey, given a new skin to look like the large rubble filled barricades, these types ... Issues with this would be pixeltruppen occupying it - does that matter? These barricades weren't used as bunkers as such, but were meant as obstructions and impassable objects, they would have taken a lot of HE to get through and prevented tanks progressing. Might be able to use the large two storey barn - fill it with FOs to make the ground floor difficult to use, reskinned to look like a barricade. think I´d remain with the wall + FO method here. Minimum size for mod builds is 8x8m and 4x8m for indi ones IIRC. Too much likely trouble getting these all togther and preserve intended effects IMO. Walls can get blasted but might spice them up with some hedgehogs (Hhogs first then walls on top in editor). Also far less time consuming setting these all up and might not work (builds method) in the end. 1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said: - So apart from the wooden bunker as substitute for the sandbag wall, foxholes might make a good stand in, Kubel unlikely to drive through those I hope! Dress them up to look more like this ... ... doesn't matter then if they're above ground, they will look the part and function. - which leads to a trench in place of the sandbag wall. Again doesn't matter they sit above ground if dressed to look like the position above. Functional, stops some vehicles and could look the part. Might be harder to place though since it will only occupy about one arch. Have I missed anything? Maybe a ditch? Simple rubble walls? I´d preserve shelters for outside defenses of the BG and local area surrounding it. All too complicated and lil chances for success otherwise IMO. Also.. where were the main RU attack axes in the area and at appropriate times? So might make no sense turning BG into a way oversize yet nice looking tank obstacle or defense position. Surely would be cool to try that option out. So I´d go with "simplest" method providing intended effects. Where should be blocking and cover terrain? Can it get work together with BG geometry? Where to put flavors for eye candy and additional effects (FO type and its hard coded properties)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 In case we´ll come to add something new to FO´s, how´s about..... taken from here https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/1243-akte-438-okh-general-der-pioniere-und-festungen-merkblatt-bildheft-neuzeitlicher-stellungsba#page/1/mode/grid/zoom/1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 4 hours ago, RockinHarry said: Morning. I´m convinced you´ll get as close to the real thing as one can get with that old game engine Nigel! Still got to try out the Stalingrad one but where do I take the time for it lol Morning old chap, Stalingrad mod may be a bit outdated now... I've come along way since then.... There was a good campaign made by Dragon someone, from a Massive master map I made???? Thats worth a play out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, RockinHarry said: In case we´ll come to add something new to FO´s, how´s about..... LMAO What a Crap idea...lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) Here's this section that I shew earlier, it has now been completed apart from flavour Objects which I will do later... I'm really loving this map now and has come together well. Notice the top left has been completed as well, No FO's yet... And here's a shot of the finished section shown above, notice how from using good photo sources I can get a better understanding of building sizes etc... I then use my large list of mods and indie builds to suit... The whole Reichstag area map, Notice i've populated the bottom left but not destroyed yet or any FO's, it is much improved from the V1 map. And now thanks to a chimney a lot bigger... it can be played as 1 map but could also be split many times into smaller sections as there is good fighting to be had in all areas. Also look how many famous 1945 landmarks are there... Some reasonable copies and some complete copies of the destroyed Berlin Mitte Sector buildings as they were in 1945. Edited November 20, 2022 by NPye 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 5 hours ago, NPye said: Morning old chap, Stalingrad mod may be a bit outdated now... I've come along way since then.... There was a good campaign made by Dragon someone, from a Massive master map I made???? Thats worth a play out. Thanks. No hurry ATM. But good to know about that campaign in advance. Might have a look then. 3 hours ago, NPye said: LMAO What a Crap idea...lol hehe... yes. In fact was looking for that walled barricade template that I saw somewhere. It´s neither in my manuals nor to be found elsewhere. Guess it was a late war invention, say end of 44 or 45 then. Didn´t make it into some manual, or didn´t find it yet. Never mind since we´ve enough photo references now. 3 hours ago, NPye said: Here's this section that I shew earlier, it has now been completed apart from flavour Objects which I will do later... I'm really loving this map now and has come together well. Notice the top left has been completed as well, No FO's yet... And here's a shot of the finished section shown above, notice how from using good photo sources I can get a better understanding of building sizes etc... I then use my large list of mods and indie builds to suit... The whole Reichstag area map, Notice i've populated the bottom left but not destroyed yet or any FO's, it is much improved from the V1 map. And now thanks to a chimney a lot bigger... it can be played as 1 map but could also be split many times into smaller sections as there is good fighting to be had in all areas. Also look how many famous 1945 landmarks are there... Some reasonable copies and some complete copies of the destroyed Berlin Mitte Sector buildings as they were in 1945. approaching perfection bud! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 13 hours ago, NPye said: I've become obsessed with the new Herman Goering Strasse Photo and made a mashup up of my map and the original. lol Like I aint got enough to do... I had to look twice at that - nice job! Reminds me of the Before and After books. Fella on the bike needs to look where he's going though. 5 hours ago, NPye said: Here's this section that I shew earlier, it has now been completed apart from flavour Objects which I will do later... I'm really loving this map now and has come together well. Notice the top left has been completed as well, No FO's yet... Great work, really bringing it to life - though not sure life is the right word given the devastation! Although the aerial view show how big the map is it's when you get down in the streets that we really see how much work you've put in to this. Fantastic! You should be proud bro! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 12 hours ago, RockinHarry said: think that idea was mentioned earlier, but how about adding some visible geometry to the FO origin and placement/rotation point? So one can see that handle during placement phases? Once all is ordered neatly one can replace that FO with original one (no visible handle) again. A non functional lil child object (with META all Zero maybe) might do. For BFC they might do the same but "simply" hide that handle at game start again. One the texture alpha layer methods (visible or non visible = 2 color) might do for that purpose. Yeah would be easy enough to add something, whether it's an extra object, like a single red brick, or something on the texture. I'd prefer the former as it's more accurate. 12 hours ago, RockinHarry said: Think the META has no (intended) effects if its actual purpose is tied to original object class, which is "fortification". Hard coded here. But the META still can work, but then properties of the new object class get applied. So then depends where you put it in. (junk, bins, fountains etc.) Some time ago I made some experiments with sandbag walls as well. Some of Meta1_0 to Meta1_2 do something on its large rotational radius. IIRC Meta1_0 is where to set it. (has somewhat different effect than for my shelter tweaks) Well whatever is going on it's not making any sense, a sandbag wall is a sandbag wall, I did nothing to it other than place it on the map expecting it to act as such - it didn't. I tried them on another map, Kubel went around as expected. What the engine/AI seems to do is decide okay on this map I can drive around the sandbags cos there's space, but on this map I can't SO I'LL DRIVE THROUGH THEM! What kind of decision making is that. Absolute tosh. 12 hours ago, RockinHarry said: think I´d remain with the wall + FO method here. Minimum size for mod builds is 8x8m and 4x8m for indi ones IIRC. Too much likely trouble getting these all togther and preserve intended effects IMO. Walls can get blasted but might spice them up with some hedgehogs (Hhogs first then walls on top in editor). Also far less time consuming setting these all up and might not work (builds method) in the end. Nah, it's not a problem adding the buildings on the map, it all fits in quite well now. Skinning buildings is probably easier than adding extra FO parts in the model to enclose the walls, similarly with bunkers. The concrete bunkers aren't used so far as I know Nigel? @NPye, though they would have to added as a force pick by the map maker. One of my biggest concerns is not so much direct assault on the gate as it wasn't the focus of fighting, rather a prize to capture, no I'm more concerned about the effects of HE on or near it. It being a massive FO a direct hit could easily make it just disappear without so much as a cloud of dust left behind. I tried a few barrages directly on it ... Mix of 120mm heavy mortar and 152mm heavy howitzer batteries full barrages. Obviously they'll have no damage effect on the gate as it's an FO, but they certainly damage the enclosed buildings, walls and such. Most of the extra enclosed FOs were left untouched, a couple of fountains bought it and a column or two disappeared. Even with the addition of a 300mm rocket barrage to the mix the gate was still there. So indirect HE is not too much of a worry. A lucky shell might hit the sweet spot but chances are against it. Indirect HE had very little effect even on the surrounding buildings, just a few extra holes in them. More of a threat is direct HE. I set up a ISU122 about 1km away (imagining the Tiergarten approach) and set area fire on the gate, took just three or four shots then it was gone. What I figured was that the sweet spot for flavor objects is the origin/handle. One HE round there will knock it out. I moved the origin to a more protected place. This time it was much harder to disappear the gate. However area targeting the place where the origin was moved to made short work of destroying it. I did try placing the origin somewhere impossible to target - up on top of the portico - but the game engine does't like that, can't grab it to move the gate. An interesting side effect of moving the origin right over to one side of the gate - after doing this I noticed the gate was flickering a lot more than it had done previously, popping in and out of view. Thought it might need some LODs but that didn't solve it. What causes this is when the camera viewpoint moves such that the origin is out of view but the majority of the gate is still in camera it will disappear. Seems the engine dumps FOs from view as soon as their origin is out of camera. So keeping the origin central will keep the object in view for longer, as the camera pans away it'll disappear but because by that time it's on the periphery it isn't noticed so much. This probably explains a lot of the flicking in and out of view of other models, trees and the like, as well. So the dilemma of how to make the gate robust enough to withstand some direct HE, stop passage by vehicles and look the part still remains to an extent. One other solution that I'm looking at is a multi-part FO. break it down into three distinct objects will give each component part better odds of surviving any direct HE fire. Might also loo again at making the cetral part into a shell for the windmill if I can figure a way to stop entry by pixeltruppen. Onwards ... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 9 hours ago, RockinHarry said: In case we´ll come to add something new to FO´s, how´s about..... I won't crack anymore toilet jokes, suffice to say I'm glad we don't have smellivision yet. I thought we already had outhouses. Or is it that you want this specific communal style. Now got me wondering if Berlin had any of those pissoirs the Parisians and Amsterdammers are so keen on. Would certainly add another kind of flavour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 On 11/18/2022 at 11:04 PM, Lucky_Strike said: You said that you're not using "the Windmill and the Big Barns, or any of the shops and houses ..." Does this still stand? @NPye does the above still stand, I'm looking at way to improve the resilience if the Brandenburg Gate against HE and basing it on a building might just solve many of the issues I have with it at the moment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said: @NPye does the above still stand, I'm looking at way to improve the resilience if the Brandenburg Gate against HE and basing it on a building might just solve many of the issues I have with it at the moment Dont use bud... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 To be honest I think I prefer Nigel's version, but I did not read too deep into the technicalities of each mentioned in this forum here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, Artkin said: To be honest I think I prefer Nigel's version, but I did not read too deep into the technicalities of each mentioned in this forum here Hang on bud Mark isn't finished yet, what you see at the moment is a testing version untextured, etc... you wait till it's finished bud, then have a relook. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, NPye said: Dont use bud... Cool. That opens up some possible solutions that will give you a much more resilient BG and one that anyone else messing with it in their own maps can hopefully abuse to their heart's content. I've come up with a pretty workable solution to the foundations for it which prevent vehicles passing though easily whilst giving pixeltruppen somewhere to call home but importantly no access to the central arches without a big pile of HE ... Once the buildings are in place it's then just a case of building up the gate on top, either as a single FO or combination of several parts ... or possibly six or seven parts depending on further tests with direct HE fire. Foundation walls ... ... buildings for added resilience ... ... FO over the buildings. This all takes a lot longer to write than it does to place the parts! A few new skins for the various buildings and most of the look and functionality will be done, then it's a case of how I handle the BG FO itself, or it might become an existential part of one of the indi buildings if I can figure that out AND if it's worth the effort. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPye Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said: Yeah would be easy enough to add something, whether it's an extra object, like a single red brick, or something on the texture. I'd prefer the former as it's more accurate. Well whatever is going on it's not making any sense, a sandbag wall is a sandbag wall, I did nothing to it other than place it on the map expecting it to act as such - it didn't. I tried them on another map, Kubel went around as expected. What the engine/AI seems to do is decide okay on this map I can drive around the sandbags cos there's space, but on this map I can't SO I'LL DRIVE THROUGH THEM! What kind of decision making is that. Absolute tosh. Nah, it's not a problem adding the buildings on the map, it all fits in quite well now. Skinning buildings is probably easier than adding extra FO parts in the model to enclose the walls, similarly with bunkers. The concrete bunkers aren't used so far as I know Nigel? @NPye, though they would have to added as a force pick by the map maker. One of my biggest concerns is not so much direct assault on the gate as it wasn't the focus of fighting, rather a prize to capture, no I'm more concerned about the effects of HE on or near it. It being a massive FO a direct hit could easily make it just disappear without so much as a cloud of dust left behind. I tried a few barrages directly on it ... Mix of 120mm heavy mortar and 152mm heavy howitzer batteries full barrages. Obviously they'll have no damage effect on the gate as it's an FO, but they certainly damage the enclosed buildings, walls and such. Most of the extra enclosed FOs were left untouched, a couple of fountains bought it and a column or two disappeared. Even with the addition of a 300mm rocket barrage to the mix the gate was still there. So indirect HE is not too much of a worry. A lucky shell might hit the sweet spot but chances are against it. Indirect HE had very little effect even on the surrounding buildings, just a few extra holes in them. More of a threat is direct HE. I set up a ISU122 about 1km away (imagining the Tiergarten approach) and set area fire on the gate, took just three or four shots then it was gone. What I figured was that the sweet spot for flavor objects is the origin/handle. One HE round there will knock it out. I moved the origin to a more protected place. This time it was much harder to disappear the gate. However area targeting the place where the origin was moved to made short work of destroying it. I did try placing the origin somewhere impossible to target - up on top of the portico - but the game engine does't like that, can't grab it to move the gate. An interesting side effect of moving the origin right over to one side of the gate - after doing this I noticed the gate was flickering a lot more than it had done previously, popping in and out of view. Thought it might need some LODs but that didn't solve it. What causes this is when the camera viewpoint moves such that the origin is out of view but the majority of the gate is still in camera it will disappear. Seems the engine dumps FOs from view as soon as their origin is out of camera. So keeping the origin central will keep the object in view for longer, as the camera pans away it'll disappear but because by that time it's on the periphery it isn't noticed so much. This probably explains a lot of the flicking in and out of view of other models, trees and the like, as well. So the dilemma of how to make the gate robust enough to withstand some direct HE, stop passage by vehicles and look the part still remains to an extent. One other solution that I'm looking at is a multi-part FO. break it down into three distinct objects will give each component part better odds of surviving any direct HE fire. Might also loo again at making the cetral part into a shell for the windmill if I can figure a way to stop entry by pixeltruppen. Onwards ... Awesome Mark, I can't help you much but give maximum support. Cheers and cheers again . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, NPye said: Hang on bud Mark isn't finished yet, what you see at the moment is a testing version untextured, etc... you wait till it's finished bud, then have a relook. Cheers Hehe, I would really be tempted to have a go at the bridge thing if there were a better way of raising them out of the ground. Your gate is the best working one for sure but if I can get this thing halfway working then maybe you'll have to retire it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Strike Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, NPye said: Awesome Mark, I can't help you much but give maximum support. Cheers and cheers again . Hey it's a pleasure mate. The texturing will have to be done at some point - then I'll be calling on your skills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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