Berlin CMRT Map

[Lucky_Strike]

11 hours ago, Falaise said:

What excitement on this forum
I was a little busy ...
I'm coming back and what fireworks

I was already admiring @NPye's work on Stalingrad, but the Berlin modis insane.
@Lucky_Strike is at full speed, I think his eyes are better
@RockinHarry is back full of idea
@JM Stuffon all fronts (your Japanese helmet is great)
good job guys

Bonne soirée mon ami, I hope your summer has been a good one. Yes my eyes are fixed.

We have missed you here, so it's really great to see you back. There's lots for you to catch up with not to mention a whole new battlepack from GeorgeMC to play.

[NPye]

11 hours ago, Falaise said:

What excitement on this forum
I was a little busy ...
I'm coming back and what fireworks

I was already admiring @NPye's work on Stalingrad, but the Berlin modis insane.
@Lucky_Strike is at full speed, I think his eyes are better
@RockinHarry is back full of idea
@JM Stuffon all fronts (your Japanese helmet is great)
good job guys

Cheers bud Mod V2 coming soon....Cheers

[Lucky_Strike]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:50 AM, NPye said:

OMG u done it. How ****ing emmersive is that... I love it and can I have it?????? 

Okay so I've now had a look at the factory model to see if I can use that as a stoke house to go with the chimney - what a hot mess that model is. Looks like it was made as an after thought, quite a lot of stuff not really finished properly and actually a few missing textures as well as some incomplete materials. I have done some repair work, it's still not 100% perfectly functioning, there are issues with the damaged stages since it's missing correct internal textures and I have no idea what needs to be done to make this right. Luckily I was able to repeat some of the external walls for the internal walls so that it at least has windows in roughly the right positions inside.

Since it was aligned at 45 degrees I thought I'd have a go at making it sit square, not a good idea, all sorts of odd stuff starts to happen - walls popping in and out of view, shadows where they shouldn't be, access issues, and pixeltruppen floating in mid air outside the building when supposedly inside. So we won't go there.

As of now we have a factory with a big f*ck-off chimney as a building that can be used (no access to the chimney) and which behaves pretty much as expected bar one or two glitches with destroyed walls and a missing ceiling at the top level - I've done a bit of a Fred Dibna and blown it up a few times, takes quite a bit of HE before it disappears with a mighty big crash ...

I found a few more factories on your map ...

Butted up to a large complex it's quite convincing. The facade and roof will change to match location so you might want to make some Berlin textures; in these images it's using the [germany] tagged set. The brickwork on the chimney itself is a bit over sized at the moment.

Battersea-am-Spree

I'll see if I can fix the missing ceiling/floor and add a broken ladder to the chimney.

[NPye]

Awesome bud, Ive already got a great texture for it...lol Cheers

 

[Warts 'n' all]

58 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

It's the curse of humanity to keep producing a never ending stream of absolute tossers who somehow seem to persuade enough people that they have something good to offer when in reality they are just snake oil salesmen ... we never learn.

No, you don't. But I really should let Mr. Axeman have a night off.

Now, "I wanna ...

 

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

No, you don't. But I really should let Mr. Axeman have a night off.

Now, "I wanna ...

Sorry about that, but I did at least manage to use tossers in a sentence ...

[RockinHarry]

4 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Okay so I've now had a look at the factory model to see if I can use that as a stoke house to go with the chimney - what a hot mess that model is. Looks like it was made as an after thought, quite a lot of stuff not really finished properly and actually a few missing textures as well as some incomplete materials. I have done some repair work, it's still not 100% perfectly functioning, there are issues with the damaged stages since it's missing correct internal textures and I have no idea what needs to be done to make this right. Luckily I was able to repeat some of the external walls for the internal walls so that it at least has windows in roughly the right positions inside.

Good work Mark! I figured for least mess up of material and texture names one should do a fresh Blender start first. So no working on things in a longer time running Blender session. And off course then having all required textures in same folder as MDR file. I got to have a look at damaged textures as well. There were still some remaining issues but I´m fairly safe we could solve these as well. (..famous last words lol)

4 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Since it was aligned at 45 degrees I thought I'd have a go at making it sit square, not a good idea, all sorts of odd stuff starts to happen - walls popping in and out of view, shadows where they shouldn't be, access issues, and pixeltruppen floating in mid air outside the building when supposedly inside. So we won't go there.

Was to be expected. META got to be adapted to any these geometry and position changes as well.  And the right type of ALT-A transforms I guess. Most things work relative to the main objects origin, which is at times hard to predict when doing rotational things. Just experienced this with the 251 half track crew positions recently. In the end I let it be. lol

4 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

As of now we have a factory with a big f*ck-off chimney as a building that can be used (no access to the chimney) and which behaves pretty much as expected bar one or two glitches with destroyed walls and a missing ceiling at the top level - I've done a bit of a Fred Dibna and blown it up a few times, takes quite a bit of HE before it disappears with a mighty big crash ...

Looks great! Fits well in there and in any urban map as well. Yep certain indi build classes are fairly resilient compared to most the other indi types. Think size and maybe class (hard coded) does matter as maybe some META data. Still haven´t found out yet. Unkn1 and 2 triplets are likely hitboxes but still unsure if they´ve influence on a buildings sturdiness as well. If it´s in META at all.

4 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Butted up to a large complex it's quite convincing. The facade and roof will change to match location so you might want to make some Berlin textures; in these images it's using the [germany] tagged set. The brickwork on the chimney itself is a bit over sized at the moment.

Looks like Nigel got to delay V2 release a little bit more.

Edited November 18, 2022 by RockinHarry

[NPye]

Using an unused Panther as a Rusting wreck, I prefer to use the actual models, rather than FO's as the FO's just get driven through, in fact iv'e deleted many of the FO vehicles because of this and I want some protection for troops.

[Lucky_Strike]

45 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Good work Mark! I figured for least mess up of material and texture names one should do a fresh Blender start first. So no working on things in a longer time running Blender session. And off course then having all required textures in same folder as MDR file. I got to have a look at damaged textures as well. There were still some remaining issues but I´m fairly safe we could solve these as well. (..famous last words lol)

Thanks Harry. It's cool that it appears for all sides and can be seen right across big maps. I've actually been doing some research on an actual chimney that Nigel showed me a pic of earlier which was a block from the Reichstag - so I'm going to scale it to that one, currently it's over 50m  but needs to be about 25-35m at my guess. I'll post more details below with some pics.

I really don't know what was going on with the original model, it looks like they ran out of time. Anyway it would be helpful if both you and Nigel can look at this one once I get it rescaled and nearer finished, you both know far more about buildings than I do, I'm just the hired help . It's actually quite straightforward adding the big chimney; biggest headache was getting all the original factory textures to load as we had that issue again of Blender ignoring textures with (00) appended to their names - the majority in this case!

55 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Was to be expected. META got to be adapted to any these geometry and position changes as well.  And the right type of ALT-A transforms I guess. Most things work relative to the main objects origin, which is at times hard to predict when doing rotational things. Just experienced this with the 251 half track crew positions recently. In the end I let it be. lol

Think part of the problem with buildings, and so many of the models, is that the various objects have an origin relative to 0,0,0 and to a single model origin, or just to 0,0,0. This can be shown in Blender by displaying relationship lines. If one tries to use Apply > Location on objects like this they might have their origin reset to 0,0,0 which is very undesirable. I have come across the same problem with trees where each leaf branch has its own origin set relative to a single origin in the model at about 0,0,0. Applying location to the leaves will reset their origin to 0,0,0 and consequentially the leaves with sway relative to the wrong point, indeed in strong wind they actually detach en masse from the tree!  I don't fully understand what we can do with this in buildings, but I'll leave it alone for now, applying scale and rotation only which seems fine.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Looks great! Fits well in there and in any urban map as well. Yep certain indi build classes are fairly resilient compared to most the other indi types. Think size and maybe class (hard coded) does matter as maybe some META data. Still haven´t found out yet. Unkn1 and 2 triplets are likely hitboxes but still unsure if they´ve influence on a buildings sturdiness as well. If it´s in META at all.

I suspect that some of the class stuff is in a database in the app itself, x type of building has y protection against HE etc. It probably takes the meta for the physical rendering of the model and does all the calculations based on the databases. Your hit boxes are likely to influence movement and LOS as you've said before being the physical aspects.

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Looks like Nigel got to delay V2 release a little bit more.

Nah, he'll just have to do V3!!!!  

[RockinHarry]

4 minutes ago, NPye said:

Using an unused Panther as a Rusting wreck, I prefer to use the actual models, rather than FO's as the FO's just get driven through, in fact iv'e deleted many of the FO vehicles because of this and I want some protection for troops.

good choice and looking great as well! FO´s have their definitive limits when you want "cover" from them. If they provide any at all which I still believe they do not. At least not something worth mentioning. Vehicle classes is different as is buildings off course. And vehicles provide you with fire and smoke effects which for good looking war torn environments we need urgently IMO.

[Lucky_Strike]

15 minutes ago, NPye said:

Using an unused Panther as a Rusting wreck, I prefer to use the actual models, rather than FO's as the FO's just get driven through, in fact iv'e deleted many of the FO vehicles because of this and I want some protection for troops.

Sounds like a good plan , plus you can have them smouldering or just sulking. There are plenty of Panther marks that weren't used so it's a great use of them, plus you can always repurpose a later version model to something like a D if you want it to look like say a late G.

Like the way it's sitting on it's suspension as well!

Edited November 18, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[RockinHarry]

6 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Thanks Harry. It's cool that it appears for all sides and can be seen right across big maps. I've actually been doing some research on an actual chimney that Nigel showed me a pic of earlier which was a block from the Reichstag - so I'm going to scale it to that one, currently it's over 50m  but needs to be about 25-35m at my guess. I'll post more details below with some pics.

I really don't know what was going on with the original model, it looks like they ran out of time. Anyway it would be helpful if both you and Nigel can look at this one once I get it rescaled and nearer finished, you both know far more about buildings than I do, I'm just the hired help . It's actually quite straightforward adding the big chimney; biggest headache was getting all the original factory textures to load as we had that issue again of Blender ignoring textures with (00) appended to their names - the majority in this case!

Sure, if you´ve something ready for testing, send some dropbox link to it. Yep, we still need some workaround for that odd Blender renaming things in bad ways. Still a big headache thing. The more if it´s an object composed of or with many materials.

11 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I suspect that some of the class stuff is in a database in the app itself, x type of building has y protection against HE etc. It probably takes the meta for the physical rendering of the model and does all the calculations based on the databases. Your hit boxes are likely to influence movement and LOS as you've said before being the physical aspects.

Yep, something like this most likely. If we could bring back @sbobovyc on it we could likely make a big leap forward. At least for solving the relative material & texture name export issues.

[RockinHarry]

12 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Sounds like a good plan , plus you can have them smouldering or just sulking. There are plenty of Panther marks that weren't used so it's a great use of them, plus you can always repurpose a later version model to something like a D if you want it to look like say a late G.

Like the way it's sitting on it's suspension as well!

Reminds me of you´s working on or have finished some burnt ground terrain tiles? I´d seen some of them earlier in this thread IIRC. MUST HAVE

[RockinHarry]

20 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Think part of the problem with buildings, and so many of the models, is that the various objects have an origin relative to 0,0,0 and to a single model origin, or just to 0,0,0. This can be shown in Blender by displaying relationship lines. If one tries to use Apply > Location on objects like this they might have their origin reset to 0,0,0 which is very undesirable. I have come across the same problem with trees where each leaf branch has its own origin set relative to a single origin in the model at about 0,0,0. Applying location to the leaves will reset their origin to 0,0,0 and consequentially the leaves with sway relative to the wrong point, indeed in strong wind they actually detach en masse from the tree!  I don't fully understand what we can do with this in buildings, but I'll leave it alone for now, applying scale and rotation only which seems fine.

Exactly. Unless we know how to adapt META, I fear we can´t do anything about that (yet). Trees sound like a suicide mission but I believe buildings should be manageable. First "understanding" indi buildings, then likely mod buildings should be worth tackling as well. I´ve couple of ideas for these already.

[Lucky_Strike]

5 hours ago, NPye said:

Awesome bud, Ive already got a great texture for it...lol Cheers

I did some research into the photo you showed where we could see a chimney near the Reichstag, found some more images that clearly show where it is ...

This from 1928, before the Reichstag was wrecked, can clearly see the chimney top right, it's about 10 storeys tall or so.

There's actually another just over the Spree, just out of shot here but nevertheless quite close.

Still standing in 45, this from the opposite side ...

And another even clearer ...

I couldn't identify the building, there was gymnasium there somewhere ...

Here is the rescaled chimney on a portion of the stock master map - it was kind of there but the scale was a little off 

The 'Reichstag' in the foreground ....

... and viewed from the other side.

This section of the BF master map was not as full as it should be. Many of the buildings were too small with lots of mock tudor roof gables! It's clear in the photos that this is a dense city block of mostly 4 and 5 storey buildings, so I added a few to sort of give the impression, but it's stock houses I'm afraid. I think it's just off the edge of your Moltke Bridge map. 

[Lucky_Strike]

10 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Sure, if you´ve something ready for testing, send some dropbox link to it. Yep, we still need some workaround for that odd Blender renaming things in bad ways. Still a big headache thing. The more if it´s an object composed of or with many materials.

Thanks, probably at the weekend. And yes this one had quite a few textures 

11 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Yep, something like this most likely. If we could bring back @sbobovyc on it we could likely make a big leap forward. At least for solving the relative material & texture name export issues.

Yes please come back @sbobovyc aka Obi-Wan Kenobi - you're our only hope he says in his best Princess Leia voice!

6 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Exactly. Unless we know how to adapt META, I fear we can´t do anything about that (yet). Trees sound like a suicide mission but I believe buildings should be manageable. First "understanding" indi buildings, then likely mod buildings should be worth tackling as well. I´ve couple of ideas for these already.

Yes it must be in there somewhere. Trees at least all behave the same (nearly), and now I know most of their peculiarities I can wrangle them quite well. They're just a bit slow going when there's 300 objects to arrange  !!!!

[Lucky_Strike]

15 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Reminds me of you´s working on or have finished some burnt ground terrain tiles? I´d seen some of them earlier in this thread IIRC. MUST HAVE

I thought the same thing this evening so I'll get back onto them once big chimney is done.

[RockinHarry]

5 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Many of the buildings were too small with lots of mock tudor roof gables!

Think at least for Berlin map we can get rid of them all. A more generic looking one replacing the Tudor should do the trick I think. Just adding variations most likely won´t help for the game engine´s random swapping. Quite a nuisance and one that BFC keeps ignoring for long time.

[RockinHarry]

2 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes it must be in there somewhere. Trees at least all behave the same (nearly), and now I know most of their peculiarities I can wrangle them quite well. They're just a bit slow going when there's 300 objects to arrange  !!!!

just looking at them in Blender makes me headaches already.

[NPye]

20 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I did some research into the photo you showed where we could see a chimney near the Reichstag, found some more images that clearly show where it is ...

This from 1928, before the Reichstag was wrecked, can clearly see the chimney top right, it's about 10 storeys tall or so.

There's actually another just over the Spree, just out of shot here but nevertheless quite close.

Still standing in 45, this from the opposite side ...

And another even clearer ...

I couldn't identify the building, there was gymnasium there somewhere ...

Here is the rescaled chimney on a portion of the stock master map - it was kind of there but the scale was a little off 

The 'Reichstag' in the foreground ....

... and viewed from the other side.

This section of the BF master map was not as full as it should be. Many of the buildings were too small with lots of mock tudor roof gables! It's clear in the photos that this is a dense city block of mostly 4 and 5 storey buildings, so I added a few to sort of give the impression, but it's stock houses I'm afraid. I think it's just off the edge of your Moltke Bridge map. 

Great photos and research bud, some i haven't seen and very useful. Loving the new sized Chim.....

[NPye]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Here is the rescaled chimney on a portion of the stock master map - it was kind of there but the scale was a little off 

 

You found exact place bud... I will extend the Reichstag maps to incorpoarte this beauty. Cheers

Edited November 18, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I did some research into the photo you showed where we could see a chimney near the Reichstag, found some more images that clearly show where it is ...

This from 1928, before the Reichstag was wrecked, can clearly see the chimney top right, it's about 10 storeys tall or so.

There's actually another just over the Spree, just out of shot here but nevertheless quite close.

Still standing in 45, this from the opposite side ...

And another even clearer ...

I couldn't identify the building, there was gymnasium there somewhere ...

Here is the rescaled chimney on a portion of the stock master map - it was kind of there but the scale was a little off 

The 'Reichstag' in the foreground ....

... and viewed from the other side.

This section of the BF master map was not as full as it should be. Many of the buildings were too small with lots of mock tudor roof gables! It's clear in the photos that this is a dense city block of mostly 4 and 5 storey buildings, so I added a few to sort of give the impression, but it's stock houses I'm afraid. I think it's just off the edge of your Moltke Bridge map. 

Here's a 1943 Aerial, really hard to place the chim but it's there???

[NPye]

I've added this section for the Chimney... This is how I build the city maps, all in sections, I copy the aerial map as much as i can, with artistic license of course. I use the 5 Story Indie Build as a layout guide, as it's easy to delete and replace if I get the layout wrong. Once happy I will study the area from aerial maps and photos of the selected site. Then I will and some different Modular builds to give it some variety and to try and match what i've found on the map ie if it's a Factory or a Neoclassical Building, or maybe a shop or a Ministry, line of shops, Bahnhof etc. This is far from perfect but gives the desired impression. Then its over to damage and I use photographs to get a rough idea where this was. I raise the height and use the rubble and other ground textures to simulate the damage plus smash up the buildings, then last of all add some flavour objects. Then hopefully I got a reasonable Berlin Map that is influenced by the real layout in 1945. Cheers 

BTW The Chimney looks to me like the same height as the Reichstag, which is 47m tall????

I get the Aerial Maps from this website:

https://ncap.org.uk/

Edited November 18, 2022 by NPye

[JM Stuff]

Hola guys awesome job again here, I am not actif for two days and I have to read a lot about you, but really sometimes you Lucky and you Harry when you give explanations you are too deep in the subject that me I cannot follow, sometimes too techniques, when you are talking about Meta and x plus z things, I try to follow but when you are not yourself in a project, you are lost and I am lost, have also to renove for Chrismas the home... so ! !...  anyway the forum is on life and this is the most important, I am making a short vid for the CMBS wrecks but also complete the others modules, and was working also on the Jap Helmet, now that I am convert files with PS all is much better, soon I will give to Bootie, following by CMRT I hope before Chrismas.

hey Npye are waiting so hurry up...(just joking) awesome job guys.

JM 

Edited November 18, 2022 by JM Stuff

[RockinHarry]

34 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Hola guys awesome job again here, I am not actif for two days and I have to read a lot about you, but really sometimes you Lucky and you Harry when you give explanations you are too deep in the subject that me I cannot follow, sometimes too techniques, when you are talking about Meta and x plus z things, I try to follow but when you are not yourself in a project, you are lost and I am lost, have also to renove for Chrismas the home... so ! !...  anyway the forum is on life and this is the most important, I am making a short vid for the CMBS wrecks but also complete the others modules, and was working also on the Jap Helmet, now that I am convert files with PS all is much better, soon I will give to Bootie, following by CMRT I hope before Chrismas.

hey Npye are waiting so hurry up...(just joking) awesome job guys.

JM 

Yeah understand. We´re still learning and all bits of focus on different things, but yet related to same stuff if it concerns Blender basics. Just ask. Off course all related to current "knowledge" which still is and can be just advanced guessworks, so to say. And looking forward to any your upcoming mods! The Jap helmet looks very well done so far.