Von Richthofen Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Let me lead off by first stating that, if you haven't read Tiger Tracks or the Last Panther, I suggest you do. They are great novels. Are they actually memoirs of a panzer crewman named Wolfgang Faust? I doubt it. They read too much like historical fiction for me. However, the narrative content contained in the two books would, IMHO, make great content for a narrative campaign. Both books tell a very good and emotional story about the horrors of mechanized warfare on the Eastern Front. A Tiger Tracks campaign is probably doable now with the CMRT Winter Mod, not so sure if a Last Panther campaign would require assets from FR to complete. Anyone have any thoughts about this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 16 hours ago, Von Richthofen said: Let me lead off by first stating that, if you haven't read Tiger Tracks or the Last Panther, I suggest you do. If nothing else, thanks for the reading suggestions. I'm reading Zamulin's 'Demolishing the myth' at the moment but will check them out. As for new campaigns I would wholeheartedly welcome (and play-test ) them. And of course F&R is nearly here, so if later content is needed it should be available soon... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Vacilllator said: If nothing else, thanks for the reading suggestions. I'm reading Zamulin's 'Demolishing the myth' at the moment but will check them out. As for new campaigns I would wholeheartedly welcome (and play-test ) them. And of course F&R is nearly here, so if later content is needed it should be available soon... I’d save your money. These pseudo-memoirs are utter tripe. All the books in this series are the same cobbled together mush mash. No relation or bearing to history. Sven Hassel Books would better. At least you know they’re fiction. If you’re looking for first person accounts linked to Tiger’s Otto Carius’s memoirs would be a better option - although he was not above embellishing the narrative! Another good option is Panzer Ace https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panzer-Ace-Commander-Barbarossa-Normandy/dp/1784382663/ref=nodl Freiherr von Rosen. Some selective recall but still an interesting read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Richthofen Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 38 minutes ago, George MC said: I’d save your money. These pseudo-memoirs are utter tripe. All the books in this series are the same cobbled together mush mash. No relation or bearing to history. Sven Hassel Books would better. At least you know they’re fiction. If you’re looking for first person accounts linked to Tiger’s Otto Carius’s memoirs would be a better option - although he was not above embellishing the narrative! Another good option is Panzer Ace https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panzer-Ace-Commander-Barbarossa-Normandy/dp/1784382663/ref=nodl Freiherr von Rosen. Some selective recall but still an interesting read. I respectfully disagree with you here, I also think the two books are works of fiction but I personally enjoyed both the stories and think they'd make for interesting campaigns in a CM style game Very much enjoyed Carius's book, still haven't gotten around to reading Panzer Ace (though it is on my 2021 reading list for sure!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 7 hours ago, Von Richthofen said: I respectfully disagree with you here, I also think the two books are works of fiction but I personally enjoyed both the stories and think they'd make for interesting campaigns in a CM style game Very much enjoyed Carius's book, still haven't gotten around to reading Panzer Ace (though it is on my 2021 reading list for sure!) I’ve no issue with you disagreeing - my key gripe is they masquerade as true stories. Real history. For those less discerning or unable that is an issue as it promulgates myths and a very skewed sense of history. In any case his ability to see through his glass plated Tiger, the incorrect Tiger crew positions, the plainly wrong combat results - T-34/85s unable to KO Tigers when in reality they could deal a works of hurt all really boiled ma piss Even the two books I suggest need to be read with a pinch of a salt and placed in a wider perspective being very German centric views. Just show I’m not averse to embellished narratives I really enjoyed Panzer Aces I when I first read it. Twenty odd years later I see it in a very different light. One book from the other side of the hill worth checking out is Loza’s Commanding The Red Army Sherman Tanks. Again wee pinch of salt but interesting first hand accounts of Soviet Shermans in action. Cheery! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Richthofen Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 11 hours ago, George MC said: I’ve no issue with you disagreeing - my key gripe is they masquerade as true stories. Real history. For those less discerning or unable that is an issue as it promulgates myths and a very skewed sense of history. In any case his ability to see through his glass plated Tiger, the incorrect Tiger crew positions, the plainly wrong combat results - T-34/85s unable to KO Tigers when in reality they could deal a works of hurt all really boiled ma piss Even the two books I suggest need to be read with a pinch of a salt and placed in a wider perspective being very German centric views. Just show I’m not averse to embellished narratives I really enjoyed Panzer Aces I when I first read it. Twenty odd years later I see it in a very different light. One book from the other side of the hill worth checking out is Loza’s Commanding The Red Army Sherman Tanks. Again wee pinch of salt but interesting first hand accounts of Soviet Shermans in action. Cheery! I will agree with you on several of those points, the ahisotricity of the opening engagement in TT was what first made me think it sounded fishy. The all-seeing Eye of Sauron drivers plate always makes me chuckle when i reread the novel as well. And I've always doubted there were regiments of IS-2s in winter of 43 in Ukraine. But since I'm well versed in the history and myths of the Eastern Front, I was able to note these and still enjoy the book as an entertaining read and a good story, if nothing else. (I didn't realize the Tiger crew positions were incorrect. What positions were out of place, if you don't mind me asking? It's been a while since I read TT and can't remember those sorts of specific details). I personally found The Last Panther to be a good narrative that captured the desperation of the Halbe breakout....minus the protagonist running into literally every German tank of the war 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 For those of you who read German I can recommend the book/kindle series by Walter Mönch on Amazon Germany. Short stories, but well written. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Von Richthofen said: I will agree with you on several of those points, the ahisotricity of the opening engagement in TT was what first made me think it sounded fishy. The all-seeing Eye of Sauron drivers plate always makes me chuckle when i reread the novel as well. And I've always doubted there were regiments of IS-2s in winter of 43 in Ukraine. But since I'm well versed in the history and myths of the Eastern Front, I was able to note these and still enjoy the book as an entertaining read and a good story, if nothing else. (I didn't realize the Tiger crew positions were incorrect. What positions were out of place, if you don't mind me asking? It's been a while since I read TT and can't remember those sorts of specific details). I personally found The Last Panther to be a good narrative that captured the desperation of the Halbe breakout....minus the protagonist running into literally every German tank of the war Its been a while myself. IIRC its the radio operator who is sitting in the turret. As I said my issue with it is it masquerades as fact i.e. veteran recollections as do many of the books from this publisher when plainly they are not. That's my beef. A great many people not as clued up as you to the history and myths of the Eastern Front will lap it up as fact. I've a vague recollection of him kicking the driver when he is the commander in the turret, which is odd... Given the gunner would be in the way and the driver is just under 3m away... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 16 hours ago, George MC said: really boiled ma piss Haha George, I like the cut of your gib (sorry, vernacular). As a big fan of your CM work, I will also take your advice on reading material. I'm quite well versed in Tiger crew positions so I imagine that would have raised an eyebrow with me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 https://www.academia.edu/35771728/Prokhorovka_12_July_1943_The_Myth_Is_Dead_Long_Live_The_Myth_September_2017_?auto=download&email_work_card=download-paper @Vacilllator, you could only read this after finishing your book...never before... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Dan Dare said: https://www.academia.edu/35771728/Prokhorovka_12_July_1943_The_Myth_Is_Dead_Long_Live_The_Myth_September_2017_?auto=download&email_work_card=download-paper @Vacilllator, you could only read this after finishing your book...never before... Interesting, thanks. Downloaded and ready to read. A quick look suggests the debate still goes on about Prokhorovka, but perhaps not to the extent that it used to? If the Wheatley papers are anywhere near correct (and they seem to be) it's clear that the old history we read was part cover-up and part propaganda? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 For anyone intrested in these two books they are both avaliable on youtube as audiobooks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 For me the best book on Prochorowka is by far Blood, Steel and Myth by George M. Nipe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said: For me the best book on Prochorowka is by far Blood, Steel and Myth by George M. Nipe. That one us indeed high on my to-buy list along with demolishibg the myth... Unflrtunatelly both of them are some what tricky to find here in Sweden...I may need to buy them from abroad Edited April 15, 2021 by Glubokii Boy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Glubokii Boy said: That one us indeed high on my to-buy list along with demolishibg the myth... Unflrtunatelly both of them are some what tricky to find here in Sweden...I may need to buy them from abroad Nipe's book won't be easy to find for a reasonable price, I'm afraid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Pieces of art are not... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Dan Dare said: Pieces of art are not... True, but it's bitter to pay double or triple the book is worth.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 well...have just check amazon....some 200€...dont remember how much my copy was but sure not that much... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 38 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: well...have just check amazon....some 200€... Ouuch !! That is quite a lot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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