StefanKollers Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Hi enjoying Combat mission WW2 titles. I however spend most of my time in the Editor making up fictional battles. I would like to make a battle witn 10,000 pts per side. But in order to do this accurately I have noticed there doesn't seem to be a Points or rarity purchasing screen, or am I missing something. If there is none available it seems to quite an emission...Considering how well the game and the editor is put together. I suppose I could keep switching back and forth from the quick battles editor, but it seems a very slow way of doing things. Would be very interested to hear from anyone who has a workaround. Thanks for reading Edited February 26, 2020 by StefanKollers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, StefanKollers said: there doesn't seem to be a Points or rarity purchasing screen, or am I missing something. No points. In the editor, on the unit purchase screen over to the right of the equipment it will have the rarity level. Standard, Common, Uncommon, Limited, Rare or Unique. However, this rarity level can change. A vehicle might be limited in April 1944 but then be common in August 1944.......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanKollers Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Thanks for replying. I cannot say I noticed the rarity level, will look out for that in future. I also had a look in the game files thinking there maybe a list detailing the cost of units. I doubt I would ever try to do a spreadsheet, because it would be so complicated. I doubt that anyone just buys a Battalion without cutting sections out, IE trucks or jeeps or or other items. I reckon most people tailor a Formation to their own preferences. I may well go into QBattles screen and just get a ball-park figure, or just do as I have been doing and just add units Adhoc and try to a balanced battle that way. Although I never make my battles easy, they are usually huge which ends up with fighting right across the map. Anyway thanks again, I would hope in the future Battlefront do add a unit Purchasing screen to the Editor at some point, probably"just a patch" but then I'm not an expert and I would hope they carry on with the new modules, both of which I'm looking forward to. Edited February 26, 2020 by StefanKollers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba883XL Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 i'd be more interested to learn a way of increasing the [pint valur given??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck21 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 I'm in the process of learning how to make scenarios myself and am running into the same issue of trying to balance forces without a points reference. I noticed in the CMBN manual in the chapter, "The Editor", page 129 at the bottom, says, "Note: Purchase and Rarity points are shown in the Editor to provide guidance on balanced force compositions for Scenario Authors, but play no other roles. A "+" after the purchase point value indicates a "lowest case" value for certain formations." Like Stefan, I also couldn't find those points other than in purchasing Quick Battle units, and I must admit, it sure does make balancing more difficult in an otherwise ingenious system. That said, if one is designing a scenario, one does need to apply some logic (and perhaps knowledge of real world tactics) in ultimately deciding your forces makeup where the unit types are fairly straight forward such as an infantry or combined arms attack on a like force. One isn't selecting forces to be one-for-one or the attacker doesn't stand much of a chance (assuming playing against an equal opponent or the AI). Going strictly by points, I suppose one could end up having a company of infantry attack an equal number of points that are made up of unmanned trenches, mines and artillery (ludicrous example I suppose, but still possible?) so basing everything on points might be misleading. Nevertheless, for similar forces but where fitness and experience levels differ widely, knowing the points would be very helpful. As such, I'd like to add my voice to a wish for having the points displayed in the Unit Editor for Scenario Design. I have to say though, it is a blast (ouch - pardon the pun ) being able to make these and kudos to BF for having this option available to us. It's a major selling point IMO. I hope to upload some once I figure out what I'm doing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 You find your balance through Victory Point (VP) allocations relative to your mission narrative. There's no reason why 10 purchase points of UNCON can't beat 100 points of a US Stryker platoon (numbers are fictional). Get the narrative right, purchase what you think seem to be appropriate units, square away the VPs and test the thing. If one side wins every single time, it probably isn't balanced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heirloom_Tomato Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 On 4/15/2021 at 7:23 AM, Canuck21 said: I'm in the process of learning how to make scenarios myself and am running into the same issue of trying to balance forces without a points reference. I noticed in the CMBN manual in the chapter, "The Editor", page 129 at the bottom, says, "Note: Purchase and Rarity points are shown in the Editor to provide guidance on balanced force compositions for Scenario Authors, but play no other roles. A "+" after the purchase point value indicates a "lowest case" value for certain formations." Like Stefan, I also couldn't find those points other than in purchasing Quick Battle units, and I must admit, it sure does make balancing more difficult in an otherwise ingenious system. That said, if one is designing a scenario, one does need to apply some logic (and perhaps knowledge of real world tactics) in ultimately deciding your forces makeup where the unit types are fairly straight forward such as an infantry or combined arms attack on a like force. One isn't selecting forces to be one-for-one or the attacker doesn't stand much of a chance (assuming playing against an equal opponent or the AI). Going strictly by points, I suppose one could end up having a company of infantry attack an equal number of points that are made up of unmanned trenches, mines and artillery (ludicrous example I suppose, but still possible?) so basing everything on points might be misleading. Nevertheless, for similar forces but where fitness and experience levels differ widely, knowing the points would be very helpful. As such, I'd like to add my voice to a wish for having the points displayed in the Unit Editor for Scenario Design. I have to say though, it is a blast (ouch - pardon the pun ) being able to make these and kudos to BF for having this option available to us. It's a major selling point IMO. I hope to upload some once I figure out what I'm doing. I felt the same way in the past but after building several scenarios, I no longer do. The quick battle system needs points in order to give the player a "fair" chance in every battle. A scenario on the other hand does not need to be a "fair" fight but rather tell a story. The question the designer needs to ask is what story am I trying to tell? Once you have the story figured out and the forces chosen, play the battle. Did it play out as you hoped? Does one side or the other need more help? If so, does it change your story? Does it matter? Would changing other factors like experience, ammo levels, weather or time of day be a better change? So many questions and the best way to find the answer is to play it! Every scenario shipped with the game was made by someone who was once in your shoes trying to figure it all out. Even now, none of the official designers get it right on the first attempt and we all need feedback to make our scenarios even better. From personal experience, I have a scenario coming out in the new Fire and Rubble module with many different versions saved on my computer from first concept to final scenario. The best way to get better at making scenarios is to have someone else play your stuff and offer honest feedback. The hardest part is the first step, offering up one of your creations for someone else to play and critique. I have found there are many truly great people on this forum who would be happy to help you improve your scenario making skills. I want to encourage you and anyone else using the editor to take that step! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck21 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Many thanks for these @Combatintman and @Heirloom_Tomato. All good points, and I'm finding out that points isn't the be-all and end-all with these as you (Combatintman) said. Heirloom_Tomato (please tell me you're from the Holland Marsh area with a nickname like that !), this really helps a bunch and certainly raises my level of interest and knowledge of how to put these things together. My big hangup on this one (my first) has been figuring out the AI (how to get guys to sit and set up for an ambush, with and without a trigger - still working on that end of things), but it is coming. It'll be a long process, but I'm enjoying it. I'm retired, and as you know, we are locked down pretty tight (supposedly) from Covid now, so I have lots of time to work on these. Anyhow, I really appreciate the encouragement, and not to worry - I'm not the least bit afraid to have people test my scenarios out. You're 100% right - it's the only way I'll get halfway decent making them. I may start with you (you have my undying sympathies ). Glenn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heirloom_Tomato Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Canuck21 said: Many thanks for these @Combatintman and @Heirloom_Tomato. All good points, and I'm finding out that points isn't the be-all and end-all with these as you (Combatintman) said. Heirloom_Tomato (please tell me you're from the Holland Marsh area with a nickname like that !), this really helps a bunch and certainly raises my level of interest and knowledge of how to put these things together. My big hangup on this one (my first) has been figuring out the AI (how to get guys to sit and set up for an ambush, with and without a trigger - still working on that end of things), but it is coming. It'll be a long process, but I'm enjoying it. I'm retired, and as you know, we are locked down pretty tight (supposedly) from Covid now, so I have lots of time to work on these. Anyhow, I really appreciate the encouragement, and not to worry - I'm not the least bit afraid to have people test my scenarios out. You're 100% right - it's the only way I'll get halfway decent making them. I may start with you (you have my undying sympathies ). Glenn I am not from the marsh however my maternal grandparents worked in the marsh when they first came to Canada. Feel free to send me a pm about your scenario and I would be glad to help if I can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said: I felt the same way in the past but after building several scenarios, I no longer do. The quick battle system needs points in order to give the player a "fair" chance in every battle. A scenario on the other hand does not need to be a "fair" fight but rather tell a story. The question the designer needs to ask is what story am I trying to tell? Once you have the story figured out and the forces chosen, play the battle. Did it play out as you hoped? Does one side or the other need more help? If so, does it change your story? Does it matter? Would changing other factors like experience, ammo levels, weather or time of day be a better change? So many questions and the best way to find the answer is to play it! Every scenario shipped with the game was made by someone who was once in your shoes trying to figure it all out. Even now, none of the official designers get it right on the first attempt and we all need feedback to make our scenarios even better. From personal experience, I have a scenario coming out in the new Fire and Rubble module with many different versions saved on my computer from first concept to final scenario. The best way to get better at making scenarios is to have someone else play your stuff and offer honest feedback. The hardest part is the first step, offering up one of your creations for someone else to play and critique. I have found there are many truly great people on this forum who would be happy to help you improve your scenario making skills. I want to encourage you and anyone else using the editor to take that step! @Canuck21 - the above is bang on the money. Scenario creation is a journey - I've done heaps and am also on the Beta team. I am still learning stuff thanks to the feedback and help that is available from other designers. Keep shouting if you need help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck21 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Thank you both. This has been a *huge* help to me, not to mention inspirational. I'm working on a scenario now for Red Thunder which isn't as much about figuring out the mechanics of how the AI works as it is about the message above. I'm sure I'll have some questions about the AI coming up soon, which I'd like to throw out here when I get to them if that's ok. Anyway, the map is done (more true to the area than my "test" scenario was - I love building maps!) and the setup zones set, so the real work starts tomorrow I expect. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it. Glenn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Looking forward to it Glenn, good post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck21 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Thanks man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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