PBEM opponents quiting mid-game

[Moriarty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer:

Consider this guys - especially if the "bail-outs" have been recent - this is the holiday season.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. These were just folks who just didn't feel like finishing what they started.

When all is lost, I'll generally let my opponent know and give him/her the choice of chasing units around the board ad nauseum or accept surrender.

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"Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line

[Binkie]

There's a potential solution to all this. Someone with a CM web site could start a deadbeat list (it would not be a good idea here at the forum...too much contention and flaming would result, methinks).

The idea is that if someone dumps you midgame without explanation or courtesy, you report them to the deadbeat list. The maintainer of the list keeps these first-time offender names offline. Then if someone else reports that same person, then they go onto the public list of potential deadbeats. No slander or other legal wierdness, just "these people might be risks for quitting based on submitted reports".

Then when you make a new gaming contact, you just browse over to the list and see if they are on it, and make your decision so much the wiser.

Sure there are ways to abuse/circumvent this kind of list, but it seems like a reasonable thing to try.

[Sergeant Huang]

I also had some unhappy experience

in ladder games. However, I joined

the Tournament house :

http://www.tournamenthouse.com/CM/

Where every game counts and people

are more serious here. Highly

recommended !!

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Sgt. Huang

I LOVE my country, but my

government sucks.

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by General Petrovsky:

And then eventually they stop, either mid-game or near the end, I even had one guy quit in the second turn because I nailed one of his tanks. He never returned the game file and then after I sent an email to him asking if he got it he comes back with he doesn't like CM anymore and that he doesn't like the way the TAC AI works and all this BS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

General, if you don't mind me asking, what was his name? I've played a couple people on theblitz that sound like this, but we managed to finish the game (even though he bitched about the TAC AI a lot). I ask because I wish to avoid him. You can email me if you want. BTW, you want a rematch from out St. Lo battle?

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Jeff Abbott

[BFCElvis]

The only time it happened to me it REALLY bugged me because I was playing a game where the odds were stacked against me very badly as a joke and then after I turned the tide the person just bailed...no surrender file..nothing.

Oh and Moriarty don't you owe me a file from before Christmas you bastard.

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What do we do with a terrible liar? Well, Great liars we send into the clergy.

Good liars we groom for politics. Moderate liars we supply with sherrif's badges

and guns, and the bad liars, well, we make them heroin whores. So what the hell

do we do with the Terrible Liars? Well, it seems we turn them into physicists

called "chrisl." Peng

[Johnno]

I run this website guys we have lots of happy friendly players and no one has complained about anyone quitting. If they did I would be on anyone that is showing poor sportsmanship like a horny dog on Pamela Abdersons soft milky thigh. Membership is sitting around 60 now and I pay special attention to the website updating daily perhaps you might like to join? Take a look at least, we have a very active Message Board also so check it out as well.

Johnno

Visit my website:

Dogs of War,CMBO Online Players Club

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"I like a man who grins when he fights."

- Prime Minister Winston Churchill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[aka_Deadline]

We all enjoy Combat Mission and a few of

us truly believe that this is the best war game to date ( nothing else comes close).

This belief in the best war game also plays

through towards our commitment to find

respectable and honorable players that want to

improve there skills and find great satisfaction in a well deserved victory or

the idea that if you have lost a battle that

you have learned from your mistakes only to

play better the next time around.

I have found players like myself who are committed to playing until the end, no matter

what the outcome maybe, to learn from every battle, to enjoy every victory and to study

a lose, so as not to make that same mistake

again.

For the quitters out there you are fooling only

yourself and have not gained anything from leaving a game.

Deadline

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"My honor is Life both grow as one, take honor

from me and my life is done."

[Henri]

I think that many players do not reqlize that a cease-fire is not a draw: the game determines the winner based on the present situation (it can be a draw). Some people don't like to surrender, but are willing to accept a cease-fire. You can get a major victory with a cease-fire.

Henri

[Bigdog]

I kinda like ther PBEM Dead Beat Black List, I could add a couple names . One time I had a 30 turn game go 3 months. And on the last turn he would not send the last freakin turn what a pisser. A least it was a ladder game and i was awarded a win and 3 weeks later I got my last turn . I think that's what's great about ladders. Players show some commitment by joining in the 1st place & there is a bit of accountably from the players

Big Dog

[This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Mark IV]

I have a two-name deadbeat list, and I would like to think that, if the bail-outs were not due to car wrecks, there are some in their near future. Set ups are a lot of work and it annoys me to no end to have someone bail without a word. Not that I'm vindictive.

My best luck, as usual, is with the sorry lot of cesspoolers, who wouldn't dream of such behavior, knowing they would have to leave the forum, change their names, and mutilate their fingertips to prevent a positive ID in the future.

[MoJo]

Hi,

Since I was currently one of these PBEM Quitters I'd like to state that its not always their fault. I recently had PC problems which kept me from my PBEM opponent as well as CM itself and am sure that others had these kind of problems as well. I am very sorry for this inconvenience to my PBEM opponent Ezmartini (Please check your email!).

-Mo

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"For every soldier that died at Dieppe, ten were saved on D-Day"

--Lord Louis Mountbatten

[M. Bates]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I kinda like ther PBEM Dead Beat Black List, I could add a couple names<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a list of bad players is an awful idea.

It depends on the circumstance, sometimes it is acceptable to bail out, if your computer crashes, or your opponent refuses a ceasefire unreasonably, or he is acting like an a**hole.

[Bigdog]

M. Bates

There is big deference from have PC problems or real life problems and telling your opponent that you need to put the game on hold until a time when the game can resume. That is the polite sportsman thing to do. NOT just stop sending turns and not responding to e-mails inquiring why the game has come to a grinding stop. We all have real life things going on and our CM time is limited, so when you hit turn 15 in a 30 turn game, and your opponents has dropped off the face of the earth without word 1. I think a list of dead beats is a good thing so some other CM player with limited CM time will not waste his or her (for miss kitty) time playing a PBEM Dead Beat.

Big Dog

[This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Ezmartini]

Roger that, MoJo. I sent a couple mails considering your absence, but I can understand the computer problems (my dad screws his up all the time).

[Binkie]

I don't think it is ever acceptable to bail out without notice, M. Bates. Even if your opponent is acting unreasonably, you owe them a "sorry, it's not working out, i'm moving on" email.

And as far as computer/software/ISP problems go, you cannot convince me that in this day and age, that there is a single CM PBEMer without alternate access to the internet. I'm talking about machines at work, friends or relatives you could ask to send something for you, a cyber cafe, or if all else fails, the public library.

So unless you're the out in the middle of nowhere in your Unabomber cabin running off of a generator and satellite dish, there's no excuse for dropping out short of hospitalization. And if you are out there in the middle of nowhere, maybe you should make your opponent aware of this before you begin a game.

I say START THE LIST!

[Bertram]

I am afraid I am AWOL on a couple of games myself...

Lost my hard disk, and my adresses, couldn't find my opponents on any list (if any of you reads this: Email me!).

So it isn't always on purpose if someone drops out.

Bertram

[retarded_keydet]

The only time I ever played tournament games online was for Sid Meier's Gettysburg, which for that matter was an excellent game in its time. The one thing it taught me was that while it is fun to watch your score rise and fall and it seems to make the victories more thrilling ladder games almost encourage people to be unscruplous if they take it too seriously. I don't play any sort of ladder games anymore rather just pickup games because first of all I don't have the time and I try not to take the game too seriously.

[This message has been edited by retarded_keydet (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Chupacabra]

I suppose I fall somewhere in the middle on this.

For various reasons, I'm not the fastest PBEM opponent out there (as the folks I'm playing can probably attest, with more colorful language to boot). Living on a different continent than most of my opponents doesn't help, nor does an unreliable ISP or a busy schedule. In addition there have been times when I've had (again for various reasons) to take breaks from playing altogether.

However, I've always tried to be as accurate and as honest as possible when telling my opponents when I'll need to break off, and if possible, for how long. I've always offered to send in a ceasefire/surrender if my opponents were bothered by the enforced wait.

IMO it's not acceptable to leave people hanging. It's not acceptable when dealing with personal acquaintances, so why should it be any more so when dealing with email acquaintances?

I'm not sure I'd use a Deadbeat List, as I play very few people outside of the 'Pool anyway, but hell, if it makes things easier for folks, why not? Just make sure that the accused Deadbeats have some way of clearing things up if it turns out they did have a valid reason for not responding. **** does happen, after all.

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Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super

[Gen. Petrovsky]

WOW, I can't believe the response this post got, I can't believe that there are that many "deadbeat" players out there. I honestly thought it was probably my bad luck that a run into these slime balls. This is obviously a serious problem with our game gentlemen and we need to do something about it. The few and empty excuses I saw above about players not responding because of other reasons hold no water. You know a quit when it happens, never happens when you're losing does it? No, it's when you have broken his back or you're just about to, you can feel their frustration. I would gladly accept a cease fire or surrender. But I do not even get the courtesy of such a request. The low lifes that posess this lack of respect should be separated from the rest of us honorable commanders. I saw a post above about having a site where if a player gets two deadbeat reports he makes the black list. That's the answer comrades. It won't take long before these guys make the list and eventually they'll all be playing each other and quiting on each other while the good players are playing each other. This needs to be done because it's getting to a point where you can't win a game anymore because people bail. I play for fun, but just finishing the losses gets old and so does playing the few respectable opponents I've found over and over again (no offense to you comrades of course). I'm going to be sure to report each quitter to the ladder I found them at. I think each ladder out there should keep a list on the site and/or throw these people off the ladder. Even if that is just an inconvience to them by just signing up again under a different name, so be it. But I can't see people just changing their emails over and over. We all need to participate in reporting these scum bags and it needs to be enforced. I really didn't think it was this bad.

[Gen. Petrovsky]

General, if you don't mind me asking, what was his name? I've played a couple people on theblitz that sound like this, but we managed to finish the game (even though he bitched about the TAC AI a lot). I ask because I wish to avoid him. You can email me if you want. BTW, you want a rematch from out St. Lo battle?

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Jeff Abbott

Sure I'll tell you who he is. He's at the Blitzkrieg wargaming club. Nickname Major Taktic with email vonwike@mediaone.net

Not only did he quit because he said the TAC AI sucks and that we wasn't going to play CM anymore, he's moved up to like 4th in the blitz ladder. Don't play him, he's an admitted quiter, should change his name to Major Asshole.

[Major Tom]

I have dissappeared, with warning, before in my PBEM games. I have had some major troubles with my Internet Providers, having to shift to some new ones after they 'vaporized' on me. Just recently, my last e-mail provider decided not to inform me that my last few messages didn't get through, a week later I send out queries, and they never received a message from me (I wondered why all THREE of my opponents, all of which are very reliable, stopped sending me files )

I did have 2 PBEM games that I did vanish completely from (I stopped playing PBEM for around a month + because of my poor e-mail service and inability of my files getting through), but, it was near the end, and I was severely defeated in both of them and conceeded 100% defeat. I do know that it isn't satisfying not seeing the end scorecard, but, the technical problems I have faced were intense and I had no real other option.

I hold no hard feelings toward my many opponents who vanished over time. I have no idea on the reasons for them vanishing and should not judge without knowing for 100%. It could be personal tragedy, hardware/software problems, unexpected trip, or lack of time (Work/School). Maybe they CAN'T reply? Best thing to do, is to let things that happened in the past stay in the past. If it happens again, without warning or sufficient excuse, then don't play them again.

Don't accuse them of cheating or intentionally stopping a game if you don't know that for 100%. It is very insulting.

[Harold]

I think the best way to deal with possible deadbeats is to resend your last move with a message indicating you were not sure whose turn it was to send. If you get a reply, great. If not then it at least lets you know where the game stands and you can move on. There are plenty of willing players out there especially if you join a ladder. Personally I don't worry about my ranking and want to simply play others that have a bit of a commitment to seeing the game through.

A deadbeat list however is a terrible idea. It is great for finding out who _might_ be a deadbeat. It is lousy if your name pops up on one justified or not and in this day and age you need to be very careful who you label.

Harold

[Moriarty]

A deadbeat list is a bad idea. Period.

While I don't particularly like it when someone drops a game without letting me know, that's between me and my opponent. It's unlikely I'll play that person again but in his next game or two against other people he might very well finish. There might be extenuating and reasonable reasons why he chose not to finish, there might not. Labeling someone in error is something I doubt anyone wants to be involved in. It's bad for the other guy, it's bad for you. It just isn't worth it, however appealing it seems.

The lack of communication is, after all, merely an annoyance. I find it better to move that person's pbem file into the "inactive" folder and get on with other games.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

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"Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 01-01-2001).]

[Guest Andrew Hedges]

The problem with the deadbeat list is that there are no standards for who gets on it. Someone who is annoyed at, say, me, could just add my name to the list, stating that I refused to finish a game. I have no way of fighting back.

Now you could have monitors, an appeal process, etc., but that would just make things more complicated.