Disembarking problem.

[jshandorf]

Hey All,

I had a problem the other night getting my troops to get the heck out of thier HTs.

I started the HTs on a fast move. During the pleasent ride I gave the troops inside thier movement orders. THen I also gave the HTs there new movement orders for getting the hell out of dodge after they dropped the troops off. I also paused those new orders for the HTs so that my troops would have plenty of time to get out.

Well, when the HTs arrived only one squad got out. I double checked all the movement orders and delays but no troop movement. So... I paused the HTs even longer so that my men HAD to get out. Next turn nothin'. They just sat there inside the HTs. "Hell, no were no getting out for some crazy ambush that will get us all killed." Heck, even the PL didn't get out of his HT.

Well... Next turn the HTs started to roll out with the troops in the back. I eventually had to TOTALLY stop the HT with NO delayed movement orders so that my darn troops would get out, which they eventually did.

I think the problem was that the HT had a second movement order pending so my troops stayed in the HTs, even when I wanted them to move.

I would think it should work that IF the HTs are not moving and the troops have movement orders that are timed to execute they should then disembark and move out. IF the HTs start to move before the troop movement order kicks in then the troops should stay in the HT.

Any thoughts?

Jeff

[Guest rune]

Pauses only work at the beginning of a turn. If you plotted a move, pause, move, it will NOT work. You should move to the point, pause to unload, then move again. Takes a little getting used to, but it does work. Doesn't seem to be a bug, as I did this with 1.05 today and did NOT have a problem. Does any of the above fit? Let me know...

Rune

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rune:

Pauses only work at the beginning of a turn. If you plotted a move, pause, move, it will NOT work. You should move to the point, pause to unload, then move again. Takes a little getting used to, but it does work. Doesn't seem to be a bug, as I did this with 1.05 today and did NOT have a problem. Does any of the above fit? Let me know...

Rune<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm... Nooo... Cause I watched the HTs sit there for about 40 seconds and that was from a pause orders I gave while they were on the move. They use the pause for thier next movement order.

I will have to monkey with this when I get home.

Jeff

[IntelWeenie]

If you get the timing right, you can sometimes get them to disembark at the end of a turn. However, I have only gotten this to work reliably when the HTs do not have any additional movement plotted.

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Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit.

[Croda]

Hmmm....I wonder where that ambush might have come from...hmmm.

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"Nuts!"

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IntelWeenie:

If you get the timing right, you can sometimes get them to disembark at the end of a turn. However, I have only gotten this to work reliably when the HTs do not have any additional movement plotted.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that is what I have seen. I think it would make more sense thatthese rules should apply:

SANS ANY GUNFIRE, BATTLE, VIEHICLE BLOWING UP, ETC...

1) Embarked troops disembark at the TIME of thier movement orders executing IF the viehicke is NOT moving.

2) Embarked troops DO NOT disembark if thier viehicle is moving when the troops movement order executes, BUT when the viewhicle finsihes it movement order and comes to a stop THEN the troops should disembark.

It only makes sense to me that way and it also seems to be the most logical.

Jeff

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Croda:

Hmmm....I wonder where that ambush might have come from...hmmm.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You only wish... This problem was in a different battle. Ya know.. one where the decision is still in the air.

Jeff

[BFCElvis]

Jeff,

I think what is happening is that the pause you use in the middle of two different movement orders is thought of as the HTs still moving (ie the pause is part of its' movement). I understand what you are trying to do with the units. But I believe the AI may still be thinking it is performing a "movement" even if that "movement" is a pause.

I hope I just made sense.

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"To conquer death you only have to die" JC

[Doug Beman]

jshandorf, what you've described (if I read it correctly) is the way the system works. If your troops have a pending disembark order, as soon as the vehicle stops (and remains so for a few seconds) the troops will hop off and go. If the vehicle comes to a halt only briefly the troops may not have enough time to disembark (more experienced troops may need less time to do this)

BTS made the decision at the start to disallow the "move/pause/move" string in any one turn. Being able to tell your HT (or anything) "move for 15 seconds, then stop for 15, then move again, then stop" is too far from reality. Most often orders given at CM's scale were less minutely detailed than that. "Get into that house!" or "Behind those trees!" was the norm.

Also, if the vehicle is moving at all, the troops will not even think of disembarking. I've had situations where a loaded HT will reach the destination I've set, only to discover a threat nearby. The HT will then being bobbing and weaving to avoid the threat, keeping the troops aboard. Usually, the HT gets whacked quickly, and all the troops inside die.

Ah well.

DjB

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman:

jshandorf, what you've described (if I read it correctly) is the way the system works. If your troops have a pending disembark order, as soon as the vehicle stops (and remains so for a few seconds) the troops will hop off and go. If the vehicle comes to a halt only briefly the troops may not have enough time to disembark (more experienced troops may need less time to do this)

BTS made the decision at the start to disallow the "move/pause/move" string in any one turn. Being able to tell your HT (or anything) "move for 15 seconds, then stop for 15, then move again, then stop" is too far from reality. Most often orders given at CM's scale were less minutely detailed than that. "Get into that house!" or "Behind those trees!" was the norm.

Also, if the vehicle is moving at all, the troops will not even think of disembarking. I've had situations where a loaded HT will reach the destination I've set, only to discover a threat nearby. The HT will then being bobbing and weaving to avoid the threat, keeping the troops aboard. Usually, the HT gets whacked quickly, and all the troops inside die.

Ah well.

DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but this wasn't the case. I watched the HTs sit there for about 30+ seconds and the troops did not disembark except for one squad. That's wierd since they ALL had the same movement orders.

Jeff

[Baker350]

I may be wrong but there is no way to pause between 2 movement orders. If, while plotting a turn, you order a unit to pause they will pause at the start of the turn, not in between an already plotted movement and a movement order that was just added. Pause orders take precedence over all other orders. The reason your HT stopped in between the 2 orders was due to the normal command delay (8 seconds for vet, 13 seconds for regular)not because of the pause order you gave the HT. Maybe that is why the troops didn't disembark.

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If the eyes in my head worked as well as the ones in my a$$ I would be a millionaire

[Doug Beman]

Elvis, I'm pretty sure a PAUSE order signals the troops that it's okay to disembark. As long as the vehicles are stationary at the start of the turn, regardless of whether they have no orders or a PAUSE order, the troops will disembark.

DjB

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman:

Elvis, I'm pretty sure a PAUSE order signals the troops that it's okay to disembark. As long as the vehicles are stationary at the start of the turn, regardless of whether they have no orders or a PAUSE order, the troops will disembark.

DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I thought. like I said before I am gonna play with this when I get home.

Jeff

[BFCElvis]

Doug,

You are right. I do that often. What I was talking about is if you issue (if it is even possible because I didn't think it was allowed) a move/pause/move order. When I have a stopped units I often issue pause/move so that troops can disembark.

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"To conquer death you only have to die" JC

[Guest kking199]

Same basic problem... last night had a stationary M3A1 with HQ inside. Gave HQ move/disembark orders and gave the M3A1 a 30 second pause then movement order. HQ did not disembark until "After" M3A1 had moved and stopped, thankfully I did not move M3A1 far. I have had this happen several times before. Question arises as I write this... how much time is allocated for an embark/disembark move?!?! Let's say it is 15 seconds, for example sake. If unit disembarking has a 20 second pause PLUS 15 seconds for the disembarking, then I need the Transport vehicle to have at least a 35 second pause?!?! right?!?! To give unit time to disembark, if not then Transport unit moves and disembarkment must wait till Transport stops. Make sense!?!? Could explain why this occurs. I might have to play with this and see if I can come to any definite conclusions. Of course the next logical question is does a HQ unit of 4 persons have the same disembark time as say a squad of 12, or a 6 man HMG squad?!?!? Logically they should not. Thoughts or observations?!?!

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Arghhh!!.... I'm Hit!!!

[Maximus]

I have to agree with jshandorf. This whole disembarking thing seemed to have changed with v1.05 patch. It seems now that the ONLY time troops will disembark is after the vehicle has stopped moving at the end of its movement order OR if the vehicle is stopped and hasn't been ordered that turn.

It used to work like this: You plot movement orders to both vehicle and passenger. And then pause the vehicle longer than the passengers command delay. It doesn't seem to work like this anymore.

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[This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Wolfe]

From what I've seen, units will always try to disembark at the point nearest their destination along the current plotted route. However, in order for them to get off of a vehicle, it needs to be moving at 'Move' speed or slower. So you *can* plot fast move orders for your HTs so long as, at some point along its route, the HT has to make a very sharp turn (preferrably as close to the infantry unit's final destination as possible) in order to force it to slow down enough so the unit can safely get off.

You don't need to issue a pause order between turns. And in fact, aren't pause orders always executed at the *beginning* of a turn? So the vehicle will just stop at the beginning of the next turn and then begin moving again. The squad won't necessarily get out because it isn't necessarily at the closest point along the HT's route yet. I'm not certain if this changed, but it may have. I seem to recall issuing (between turns) pause orders that would pause a vehicle after it completed its current movement orders. Now it seem to pause them immediately. But I could be mis-remembering. Regardless, don't rely on pause orders to stop the HT and let your troops off.

I believe that squads begin to try to get out at the nearest point to their destination along the plotted route and at any point thereafter that allows them to *safely* disembark (which in Jeff's case was likely the end of the HT's route for one of his units).

In order to ensure the unit can disembark at the correct location, I prefer to plot a 'Move' order for the HT at the point closest to the infantry's final destination to give him the best chance to get off. So, to begin with, I give the HT a 'Fast' movement order to the general area I want them to go, then a short 'Move' order along the same direction, and then a 'Fast' order *away* from the area so the HT can high-tail it outta there.

So at the point nearest where I want the infantry units to go, the HT is executing a Move order and then a turn order. This usually forms a 'J' hook shape in the HT's movement path, and will slow them down enough so the units feel free to get off, and the HT will only pause for a few secs while the unit disembarks, and then merrily go on its way.

Don't recall if this always works for very slow units like MGs, but it seems to do a good job for infantry squads.

Hope this helps.

BTW, if the infantry unit (i.e. conscript troops out of command radius) takes longer to begin moving than the HT does to complete it's trip, the troops will still be dropped off at the point nearest their destination, they just won't begin moving until their inherent delay is up.

- Chris

[This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Maj. Bosco]

I'd just like to see the pause command be modified so that it can be given at any waypoint, not just at the start. Oh, and I'd like the same thing for the button and unbutton commands, but that's a different thread I guess.