Lindan Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 <table> <tr><td bgcolor=#648277><font color=#e7e9de size="-1"><div align="center" valign=center>Give us Karl! in CM2 </div></font> </td> <td bgcolor=#e7e9de><font color=black> Hello everybody! How about creating a wish list for "oddities" of all kinds to be included in future releases of CM? I'd like to see one of the above. (54cm Mortar "Karl" aka "Gerät 41"). Ok, I don't want to see it move or something, but please show me a blast from a 54 or 60cm Mortar! (How large an explosion would it be??) Has anyone some infos about this thing. My book only states that it was used to bombard fortifications at Brest-Litowsk and Sevastopol. Thanx. <font size=-1 color=red>Lindan out</font> </font> </td> </tr> </table> <FONT COLOR=#648277></FONT><FONT COLOR=#e7e9de></FONT> <FONT COLOR=#e7e9de><FONT COLOR=></FONT></FONT> </body> </html> [This message has been edited by Lindan (edited 01-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 I got one of those babies in my backyard but my neighbor says I got to move it because it blocks his view, what a tosser huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Jesus Holy Mother of God! As long as you're in search of Armageddon, how about Little David, the 914mm artillery tube developed by the US for the invasion of Japan? That's right, 914mm, 36 block-busting inches. At 1678 kg (3,700 lb) per shell, I doubt the rate of fire was much to speak of. But then again, who needs rate of fire with a beast like that... ------------------ Der Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Hehe... dream on If you saw the reload time for this sucker, not to mention the aiming time, I think you would agree that there is no place for it in CM. Oh, and the minimum range was measured in thousands of meters too. So if we put this in it would basically sit there for two battles aiming, take one shot at a target off map, and then sit idle for another battle while it was being reloaded. Hence... you won't be seeing it in CM2 As for the largest gun that was used in WWII, the 800mm Gustav Gerät was used against Sevastopol, where it fired exactly 48 shots. So far as anybody knows it never fired another shot after that. Note that all German "super" heavy artillery was used for pinpoint, STRATEGIC targets. Just like bombers, they have no place in CM because of that. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Quote: Note that all German "super" heavy artillery was used for pinpoint, STRATEGIC targets. Just like bombers, they have no place in CM because of that. Steve What? So we couldn't just put the barrel down and use it with open sights against that bazooka team over there??? Fen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted January 12, 2000 Share Posted January 12, 2000 Fenris - sounds good to me. Should 'resolve' the problem! Lindan - it was my understanding that these things fired solid shot, so there wouldn't be an explosion as such. I suppose they were similar in many ways to medieval catapults? Could be wrong there though. I also remember reading that one of the guns used at Sevastapol fired such large rounds that they were made of concrete rather than steel! Regards Jon ------------------ Ubique [This message has been edited by JonS (edited 01-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted January 13, 2000 Author Share Posted January 13, 2000 <table> <tr> <td bgcolor=#648277><font color=#e7e9de size="-1"><div align="center" valign=center>"Schwerer Gustav" /w 80cm Gun "Dora" </div></font> </td> <td bgcolor=#e7e9de><font color=black> I have a great source for this gun with all relevant wwII documents from the very beginning of the design conception up to the bombardment of Sevastopol. It includes lots and lots of technical and ballistic stuff I don't really understand. If someone is interested I can mail you some info on it. There was a HE-Grenade for it. Weight:4750kg. (don't aim this at my planet) </font> </td> </tr> </table> <FONT COLOR=#648277></FONT><FONT COLOR=#e7e9de></FONT> <FONT COLOR=#e7e9de><FONT COLOR=></FONT></FONT> </body> </html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 Wasn't "Karl" the largest artillery piece which Germany fielded against Sevastopol? I thought that it threw a larger and heavier projectile than "Big Dora" (who named these things? ) The reason I say this is because I'm sure that Karl was brought up to crack the forts open and Dora was to bury them afterwards (Dora was easier to reload?). I do recall that Dora had sixty (!) railway trucks to move it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 You wimps! Why bother with some cheesy mortars or non-self propelled guns. I want to see a REAL TANK for REAL MEN in Combat Mission. Here it is: "a 1500 ton superheavy tank, cased in 250mm of armour, armed with an 80cm gun and two 15cm weapons, and powered by four U-boat diesels." Ahhhh! Let's see Madmatt throwthis mother out of the bar! See this page of Technical Virtue for more info. [This message has been edited by Richard III (edited 01-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 Hey, if they do a pacific theater CM, 16" Battleship fire support... And those come in barrages of three Can you say Boom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heibis Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 Hey, Eridani you said barrages of 3, but think of barrages of 6 or 9, or maybe multiple BB would support the same target! That is something that you would not want to face. And yet such barrages were a major reason why the D-day beacheads were just too hard to crack for Wehrmaht... Heiberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 In reference to Zigster's comment about Little David. Just today I was watching a History Channel show about Big Guns. They showed film of Little David test firing. All I can say is, WOW!! Craters 38 feet wide and 20 feet deep. I wonder what the blast firepower in this would be? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"a 1500 ton superheavy tank, cased in 250mm of armour, armed with an 80cm gun and two 15cm weapons, and powered by four U-boat diesels."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehehe, I'd settle for some of those 170-ton fusion-powered hovertanks in the "Hammer's Slammers" series . -Bullethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teutonic Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 Caption from "German Artilery in World War II 1939-1945" by Joachim Engelman: The loading winch of the 60cm"Karl" mortar lifts the CONCRETE shell, 2.5 meters long and weighing 2.117 TONS, onto the sliding rollers of the automatioc loading apparatus during the 1944 warsaw uprising. The shell could penetrate 4 METERS of Armor plate. Hey Lindan this book has a shot of the "Karl" Just after it fired. the caption says that the 16-man crew could fire six shots per HOUR. Teutonic Waiting for the concrete shell to come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeathome Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 I suspect the "concrete" shell is probably a concrete-piercing shell, as opposed to HE. There was an empty 80cm shell at Duxford Airfield in England last tiem I was three, about 20 years ago. The shell stood about 6 feet tall IIRC. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 Mike, No, I really think it was MADE of concrete. Maybe it had a steel shell and concrete filler? Think how heavy (and expensive!!) piercing shells that size would be if made of solid steel! Regards Jon ------------------ Ubique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 My source for the Karl indicates: "Both [the Gerat 040 and Gerat 041] could penetrate between 2.5 and 3.5 metres of concrete before detonating to produce maximum effect...They fired special anti-concrete projectiles that exploded only when they had penetrated the target." Shell weight was 2170 kg for the 60cm mortar and 1250 kg for the 54cm mortar. Rate of fire for both, as mentioned earlier, was about one shot every ten minutes. I say throw it in for CM2! hehehe... On the Little David: The shell weighed in at 1,678 kg and contained 726 kg of high explosive. The barrel took 12 hours to set up (it had to be placed underground in an armoured box). That means a 12 hour set up time every time you shift targets cuz ya gotta dig a new hole. Rate of fire not given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 oops - wrong again Jon ------------------ Ubique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlakBait Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 The Maus could be fun for some "what if" scenerio's. Or how about that upgunned sherman from Kelley's Heros. That could be a fun user made scenerio. - ps. I know it didn't exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted January 13, 2000 Share Posted January 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Or how about that upgunned sherman from Kelley's Heros. That could be a fun user made scenerio. - ps. I know it didn't exist <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Huh? What upgunned sherman? You mean the pipe? That was just to be scary looking... But I wouldn't mind a good tapedeck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 I always thought Gary Puckett and the Union Gap were years ahead of their time, but 25 years...! Ah... Kelly's Heroes. Is there a greater classic? (And don't think I haven't noticed all the nicknames on this board either ) It was the first movie I ever saw at a drive-in (I musta been four or five) and still ranks among my favourite late-night offerings. At least it would be if it weren't for all the phone-sex and psychic friends network commercials... ------------------ Der Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Swiss knives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 <marquee>Woof WOOF! </marquee> ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Bullethead, Drake's sci-mil-fi books are some of my faves. I most enjoy the original collection, and the next two in the "series" (Rolling Hot and Counting the Cost) At Any Price (and one more after whose title I forget) weren't so impressive. One of my first scenarios to create in CM will be the passage in Rolling Hot, in which the mercs have to cross a river via a bridge which is held by a weak friendly unit surrounded by enemy troops. Awesome. That and the final battle: one hovertank vs. like a full regiment of regular-tracked tanks. A King Tiger vs. Stuarts? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Forget Drakes Hover-tanks, fine militaria that they may be, I'll settle for one BOLO Mk. XXVIII "Triumphant" from Laumer and a couple of Companies of M.I. Cap Troopers from Heinlein and I'll be happy...up against about ALL of the rest of the worlds WWII arsenal. Should be a fun six minutes. Zamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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