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Must See! Suicide Missions: Sherman Tanks on U.S. History Channel

John Kettler
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John Kettler Senior Member

John Kettler

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This may be too late for some, but History Channel is running Sherman Tanks tonight at 9:00 p.m. Pacific time on Suicide Missions. I just caught the fabulous color end trailer footage from the 5:00 p.m.show. Kasserine's being covered now on Military Blunders.

Regards,

John Kettler

[This message has been edited by John Kettler (edited 12-17-2000).]

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Guest ckoharik

Guest ckoharik

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I just got done watching the show. The way they put it I wonder just how we managed to defeat the Germans. There was no discussion of using the speed of the Sherman to defeat the Panthers and Tigers but more of a focus on how they shot the heck out of them. Guess that's why it was a Suicide Missions episode. Still, very interesting viewing.

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von Lucke Senior Member

von Lucke

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Actually, given that it was a History/Discovery Channel (ie; mass market)production, it was really a rather well done over-view of American armor development and deployment in WWII Europe.

I kinda wondered why it was under the heading "Suicide Missions", until I saw the interview footage with Belton Cooper, author of Death Traps.

What made it worth the price of admission tho, was the final segment where they play the combat footage of the duel between the M26 and the Panther near the cathedral in Cologne. Amazing stuff there! Spielberg couldn't have come up with better!

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von Lucke Senior Member

von Lucke

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Well, of the first 40 M26's to roll off the production line in Jan '45, 20 went to Ft. Knox for training purposes, 10 went to 3rd AD and 10 to 9th AD, first seeing combat in Feb '45. Overall about 1400 were produced by the end of the war. Dunno how many exactly saw combat tho...

But yeah, watching that Panther brew up was extraordinary! The interior fire shone right through the penetration holes in the side hull and turret, highlighting them perfectly...

Like the M26 gunner said in the interview, you really felt sorry for the poor crewmen caught inside. ('Course, I also felt sorry for the Sherman crewman missing half his leg as he crawled/fell out of the smoking Sherman that same Panther had nailed 15 minutes before...).

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Guest AbnAirCav

Guest AbnAirCav

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke:

Well, of the first 40 M26's to roll off the production line in Jan '45, 20 went to Ft. Knox for training purposes, 10 went to 3rd AD and 10 to 9th AD, first seeing combat in Feb '45.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read that the 20 tanks issued to the 3rd & 9th Armored Divisions were actually built in November '44 as test and evaluation vehicles, but that as a result of the Ardennes offensive they were immediately deployed. And that "only a few were issued in time to see action in WWII".

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Wesy Senior Member

Wesy

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To quote Lenin:

"Quantity has a Quality all it's own"

I saw like 5 minutes of it, but then the wife came into the living room and said "...are you watching that war stuff again...haven't you SEEN this already...Yikes"...had to change the channel, anyone know if it'll get run again this week?

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Head Mahone Senior Member

Head Mahone

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In reference to the show on the History Channel, here is the URL to a site dedicated to the 3rd Armor Division.

http://www.3ad.org/wwii/

If you haven't been there before, ITS A MUST. Don't pass up the picture section, they have some of the best I've seen in a while.

-Head

------------------

"No man ever won a war by dieing for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

-General George S. Patton, Jr.

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dumrox Senior Member

dumrox

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I watched the show last night, and a couple items stood out:

1. The sounds the History Channel used for the moving tanks and the firing panzerfaust seemed identical to the sounds in CM. I was playing the game at the time and got to compare the sounds. Of course, the TV didn't have the benefit of coming through 400w Klipsch speakers like the game does :)

2. Playing CM has forever changed how I view these shows. When I watched the footage of the one-legged Sherman crewman hop out of his tank and collapse, I kept imagining a "1" show up next to the little red cross for that crew. When a crewman recounted how disoriented he was after his tank was hit and two of his crew died, that it took a minute or so to come to his senses, I was thinking, "yeah, and you'll have an exclamation point next to your status for the rest of the battle."

3. After watching the show and hearing the tales of the surviving crewman, I wonder if (in the game) crews should emerge from knocked out vehicles in worse shape than they currently do, broken or routed perhaps.

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von Lucke Senior Member

von Lucke

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Splinty:

What I found interesting was the amazingly inexperienced replacments the tankers were getting. Not only were they not veterans,they weren't even trained tankers!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yah, and that was the 3rd AD --- Patton's Spearhead! 'Course Cooper also mentioned how most of 'em were dead or immobilized by the next battle...

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Trooper Senior Member

Trooper

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke:

Yah, and that was the 3rd AD --- Patton's Spearhead! 'Course Cooper also mentioned how most of 'em were dead or immobilized by the next battle...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sure about that now? I thought Patton got the Third Army, and 3AD was under Bradley's command?

NTM

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Guest Germanboy

Guest Germanboy

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASL Veteran:

One thing I noticed was that they said that the Cullin Hedgerow device wasn't installed on the tanks until the end of July and in CM all American tanks have the hedgerow device from the start! smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure about that? AFAIK they only have it from July. At least that is what BTS stated. Off to test.

Later: sorry ASL Vet, but you are wrong. Try for yourself. Just set up a test, putting a bunch of tanks into a bocage field with no exit. In June 44 they can not move out, in July 44 they can. Ooops.

Omar Bradley (unless there was another Bradley) was commander of the US ground forces, Patton was commander of 3rd Army under Bradley, and I have no clue who was CO of 3rd AD.

------------------

Andreas

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a >

Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission.

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 12-18-2000).]

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Wayne Senior Member

Wayne

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Splinty:

What I found interesting was the amazingly inexperienced replacments the tankers were getting. Not only were they not veterans,they weren't even trained tankers!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was generally the experience of ALL U.S. Army replacements. Some were killed before the rest of the unit knew their names. Many had no infantry training whatsoever and those that survived without serious injury where either very lucky or good at survival, or in good with the Lord.

------------------

Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.

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ASL Veteran Senior Member

ASL Veteran

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Sure about that? AFAIK they only have it from July. At least that is what BTS stated. Off to test.

Later: sorry ASL Vet, but you are wrong. Try for yourself. Just set up a test, putting a bunch of tanks into a bocage field with no exit. In June 44 they can not move out, in July 44 they can. Ooops.

Omar Bradley (unless there was another Bradley) was commander of the US ground forces, Patton was commander of 3rd Army under Bradley, and I have no clue who was CO of 3rd AD.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, my mistake - perhaps they can't be used in June. However, they probably shouldn't be able to be used in July either since the guy didn't show it to the Army brass until July 22 (according to THC). Perhaps August would be a more accurate month for usage? I am converting a lot of ASL scenarios that are set between July 11 and July 16 and the hedgerow device throws the balance off.

(sigh) I suppose I am going to have to put up with Krautboy every time I post now. He is a little like a flea infestation. Just can't shake him.

By the way Krautboy (aka rabid defender of the faith) I was only making a simple observation - I wouldn't demand a game change (heaven forbid) based upon something I saw on the History Channel! (Geez, what rock did this guy crawl out from under anyway?).

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