PBEM battle

[Stefano Z]

Hello all,

New to the forum and sort of new to the game.  I am looking for an opponent for a PBEM game, I am around at 8 pm eastern and not quite sure how many turns a day I would be able to manage yet.

Thank you.

[John Kettler]

Stefano Z,

Welcome aboard!

Am sure you'll shortly find someone to oblige you. Am afraid it won't be me, for my dance card is full, and I've been unable to dance for quite some time, so to speak. Don't know whether or not you have a particular interest in a side, but the maven of the Russians is Sublime. He really knows his stuff and is very good at conveying the information. The overall capability spectrum in the game in terms of weaponry and response time goes like this: Americans, Russians and Ukrainians. There is a member who is kind of Sublime's analog and plays only Ukrainians. The Americans are at the top of the pile, but the gear is enormously expensive, and numbers tell. The Americans have the best sensors, which frequently result in first Spot, first Shot and first Kill.  Their engagement cycle time is dazzling. I've seen a Veteran Abrams M1A2 SEPV3 with no Spot roll straight out of cover in plain sight at ~700 meter range  smack in front of two T-90AM, also with Veteran crews and buttoned, which is the usual Russian combat practice. The Abrams went from no spot to Target Destroyed in four (4) seconds flat. Thinking this was ridiculous, I posed the situation to our own Abrams guys, who assured me this was eminently doable. That T-90AM died without ever firing. the one next to it was hit shortly thereafter, survived it, but then died on the second shot. It, too, never got off a shot. Should also tell you the BMP-2Ms with Kornet can and will use them now with deadly effect against the Abrams, rather than attract attention with the prior mostly galling 30 mm auto cannon fire (leading to very quick destruction generally). If you want a fun game, play Red on Red with the T-90AM and the other good toys. It's a fabulous run and gun platform and will give you a whole different perspective on armored warfare than you'll get from the much slower Abrams.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stefano Z]

Thank you for all the info John.  I have played all the scenarios, most of them from both sides, and I enjoyed using all three armies.  Did not get to the Rus or Ukr campaigns yet but wanted to face a human opponent first.  Was not aware a fratricidal battle was possible.  That must be interesting with the US forces as well.

[A Canadian Cat]

If no one directly answers here is a thread that discusses several sources of PBEM opponents: PBEM opponent wanted - Battlefront.com Community

[Stefano Z]

5 hours ago, IanL said:

If no one directly answers here is a thread that discusses several sources of PBEM opponents: PBEM opponent wanted - Battlefront.com Community

Thank you, I will check these out.

[The Steppenwulf]

I'd happily give you a game Stefano - hit me up if you are still looking. 

[John Kettler]

Stefano Z,

You're most welcome. What I like about being able to play Blue on Blue or Red on Red is that it removes the whole "You only won because you had the X, and I didn't." Remove that perceived advantage, and it makes it all the more evident who really knows how to fight well. This is particularly the case when the forces are dead even in every respect and the map is mirrored. That's when you live or die on your own hook, while having no out based on superior sensors, weaponry, armor protection, etc. Can you still be undone by bad "die rolls," if you would? Of course, but that is the nature of things.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Tenses]

On 16.03.2017 at 6:26 AM, John Kettler said:

Stefano Z,

Welcome aboard!

Am sure you'll shortly find someone to oblige you. Am afraid it won't be me, for my dance card is full, and I've been unable to dance for quite some time, so to speak. Don't know whether or not you have a particular interest in a side, but the maven of the Russians is Sublime. He really knows his stuff and is very good at conveying the information. The overall capability spectrum in the game in terms of weaponry and response time goes like this: Americans, Russians and Ukrainians. There is a member who is kind of Sublime's analog and plays only Ukrainians. The Americans are at the top of the pile, but the gear is enormously expensive, and numbers tell. The Americans have the best sensors, which frequently result in first Spot, first Shot and first Kill.  Their engagement cycle time is dazzling. I've seen a Veteran Abrams M1A2 SEPV3 with no Spot roll straight out of cover in plain sight at ~700 meter range  smack in front of two T-90AM, also with Veteran crews and buttoned, which is the usual Russian combat practice. The Abrams went from no spot to Target Destroyed in four (4) seconds flat. Thinking this was ridiculous, I posed the situation to our own Abrams guys, who assured me this was eminently doable. That T-90AM died without ever firing. the one next to it was hit shortly thereafter, survived it, but then died on the second shot. It, too, never got off a shot. Should also tell you the BMP-2Ms with Kornet can and will use them now with deadly effect against the Abrams, rather than attract attention with the prior mostly galling 30 mm auto cannon fire (leading to very quick destruction generally). If you want a fun game, play Red on Red with the T-90AM and the other good toys. It's a fabulous run and gun platform and will give you a whole different perspective on armored warfare than you'll get from the much slower Abrams.

Regards,

John Kettler

John Kettler,

Is it really that M1 has that big adventage in terms of spotting? I haven't played CMBS, but in CMSF the spotting ability of Abrams is only marginally better than T90. It looks more realistic as for me and engagement between the two is not that one sided at all.

Regards

[John Kettler]

Tenses,

Welcome aboard!

It does, and it's very much real, which is reflected in the game. Moreover, Russia simply can't produce the IR detector arrays that provide such capabilities, so has had to go to France's Thales to buy the Catherine FC for the T-14 Armata, and even that isn't on par with what the US has. Am unsure how big the buy was, but France finessed the sanctions by obtaining permission to complete delivery on existing contracts. The "Catherine FC in Russian tanks" story is considerably more complicated than this, but I've been up all night and don't wish to screw it up by presenting some sort of mishmash instead of a coherent story I simply don't have yet. The T-90AM in the game is a formidable opponent, particularly inside 750 meters. One of ChrisND's AARs on YT showed a bunch of Abrams killed by them in frontal engagements, and I've lost an Abrams myself to same with an "in the face shot" in a QB. Forgot to record the range, though, when I did my AAR. Where the T-90AM and its ilk suffer is when being hit, for if the Relikt doesn't do the job, the struck tank is dead. The Abrams is considerably tougher and can often shrug off a hit (won't be happy, mind) and smash its tormentor. The key difference is that the Abrams is designed to be able to, if all else fails, absorb  and likely survive the impact, whereas the T-90AM and siblings don't have primary armor which can do this, so need Relikt to sacrificially defeat (for each success leaves a part of the tank exposed which wasn't before) shots which would otherwise destroy the owning tank. Am utterly unqualified to speak on the Abrams in CMSF, since I have never played and don't own it, so shall let others who have the two games and have played the Abrams in both to reply in that regard. 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited March 17, 2017 by John Kettler

[Tenses]

Armour of Abrams tank is of course much better. Apart from just below the turret it is in fact very hard nut to crack for any adversary, which is not a case for lighter russian tanks. The thing is that even, if Abrams better optics and thermals put it at advantage over T90 in terms of spotting, it does seem to be too much of it. I don't count as strange driving out of cover, spotting enemy tanks and placing a shot in 4 seconds. What I consider strange is that tank put frontally 750 m away won't notice attacker after it drives out of cover, destroys it's wingmate, reloads and kills it too. Even with medicore optics this would be highly probable to return fire in this time.

Regards   

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Here's a test file I made for experimenting with this:

tankguntest.btt

Adjusting the crew experience, training level &/or the range can change the results dramatically. 

As it is, I'd say the Abrams' advantage is much too big. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[John Kettler]

Tenses,

With a sample size of one, there are myriad potential explanations of what happened, and didn't, on both ends, in the case I described. Nor, unfortunately, did I save the file. Frankly, I was too shocked to do so, for I couldn't believe my eyes. You'd think the static tank would have the advantage in the situation I described, but it sure didn't pan out that way. 

Sgt.Squarehead,

I have no doubt what you say is true about what affects results, and if we start doing things like modeling situations where even Veterans have been run ragged, maybe haven't been properly fed and such, then even the mighty Abrams isn't going to do as well as what we're used to seeing. Panzersaurkrautwerfer's comments about how things really were in his own tank platoon show the realities of the difference between what we see in our oft cookie cutter formations and combat units dealing with personnel churn, varying leadership abilities and abilities to fight the tanks. All the theoretical capability in the world is useless if it can't be effectively applied. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Artemis258]

Stefano, the guys here will always happily give you a game but there are also two communities- The Blitz and The Few Good Men - that maintain both an active PBEM base and (at least in the case of TFGM) a running annual ladder to play on... might be worth checking those out too! 


http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/ 

http://www.theblitz.org/ 

[Douglas Mac]

I will give you a game mate. Just pm me. Welcome aboard.

[John Kettler]

Stefano Z,

Have you taken up arms and entered the lists, are considering multiple offers of battle, or what? Kibitzers want to know! If it is T-90AMs at 30 paces, the AAR will be easy to write.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

[Stefano Z]

 

18 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Stefano Z,

Have you taken up arms and entered the lists, are considering multiple offers of battle, or what? Kibitzers want to know! If it is T-90AMs at 30 paces, the AAR will be easy to write.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

People were responsive, did not join the Blitz or the Few Good Men yet but started a couple of games.  Did not get a chance to use the tanks yet... but that statement is worrisome...