Which BMP to Choose?

[MOS:96B2P]

Which is the preferred BMP to include in one’s TOE?  From the game manual the BMP-3M sounds like the better vehicle.  However, in the Quick battle purchase screen the BMP-3M with ERA is cheaper than the BMP-2M with no ERA and the same soft factors.  I would expect the newer designed vehicle (and with ERA) to be more expensive.  It makes me wonder if I am missing something and which BMP other players think is the best.

On the Quick Battle purchase screen I found the following purchase points for the different BMPs.     Soft factors of - Experience: Regular, Motivation: Normal, Fitness: Fit and Leadership 0.

Vehicle                       Points              Rarity

BMP-2                        199                   0

BMP-2M                     265                   0

BMP-3                        216                   0

BMP-3M                     247                   0

BMP-3M ERA            246                  246

BMP-3M ARENA       280                  1,400

BMP-3M SHORTA    259                   777   

I had been using the BMP-2M in PBEM games.  I am thinking of switching to the BMP-3M ERA.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

  

Edited December 24, 2015 by MOS:96B2P

[Bud Backer]

Pick the one with a full tank..

More seriously, I have repeatedly seen mention here that the BMP-2 outperforms the -3. I think (but I might be misremembering) @sublime mentioning this, but whether he is or is not the person I'm recalling, he would not be the only one. The details elude me but I think -3's blow up easier??? Odd, but.. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Bud_B

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

I like the bog standard BMP-2s but that's because I tend to use them as battle taxis.  None of the BMPs hold up especially well to direct fire, and while the BMP-3 offers a lot of weapons I rarely seem to get them to use them before something blows them up (and by god do they blow up).  BMP-2M is neat but expensive.  Would rather save my points for tanks.  

[Vanir Ausf B]

When choosing BMPs there are two features that are so useful that I exclude any vehicle that lacks either: multi-spectral smoke launchers and air-bursting munitions. That eliminates BMP-2, BMP-3 and BMP-3M ERA. The BMP-2M seems to have some TacAI issues regarding its use of missiles so I avoid it as well.

In my view the vanilla BMP-3M, the BMP-3M Arena and BMP-3M Shtora are the only three worth consideration with the Arena variant the hands-down preferred option of you can afford it since it is the only BMP that can operate within several hundred meters of US infantry without getting shredded by 40mm HEDP, XM25 CDTE and M136 AT4.

[Sublime]

For any Russian attack I almost religiously will take and parse down a BMP2M tac grp. Ill keep a fair amount of BMP2Ms, to spread extra ammo and RPGs around and for fire support. And I generally try to have one platoon thats fully mounted per company.  On almost any Russian defense I almost religiously take the BTR82A Tac Grp and  parse that down keeping less a mounted platoon anywhere, more BTR82s here and there just for fire support.  Vehicle support that always stays as an exception are usually command vehicles and any vehicles that come with the formations mortar, air defense, and especially in defense in any anti tank formation. AT wise its always AT14/13.  The kornet goes without saying.  The Saxhorn isnt bad and has a great 7 second setup time for buildings which cannot be beat. Never forget to delete your air officers if you dont take air and I honestly eschew even any drones at all as the Russians relying on TRPs, the 2nd 152mm module in the Bat TAC GRP, and the BMP vehicle spotter. IGLA S' with 2-3 teams saved everything else deleted. TIGR/UAZ.  AGS 17/30 The autocannon is sufficient for both BMP and BTR and though mine have yet to shoot em others have swore theyve seem BMPs launch their Kornets. If you have BMP2Ms and also religiously  try to break p 2IC and cmd staff squads to give your BMP2MS an extra crew member the value of basically a half @$$ed Khriz running around in large numbers cannot be overstated. And Theyll go boom just as easily as a BMP3 really as far as Im concerned and what usually kills my armor.

For tanks as the manual states 41 and 31 are just the number of tanks in the tank bttn.   I usually take T90As on defense, no ARENA.  ERA if possible. On offense for whatever reason its T90AMs no ARENA yes please ERA.

I almost religiously always attach a Tunguska and 2 vet or crack Khrizanthemas to my Russian forces as well.

 

I have to add that though many many people have stated that the spectral smoke is mod'd correctly and Im not debating whether it is or not, especially for the classic black Warsaw Pact smoke from UKR and old Russian vehicles - however Im really beginning to question whether it is modelled correctly in artillery smoke barrages though anecdotal I can think of several games I laid thick thick Russian smoke barrages that have allowed me to drive an armored attack right up to the US armor line. Yet I also remember many a time on the board it being asked and verified if the smoke was non multi spectral as it was supposed to not be.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Sublime

[antaress73]

I like the bog standard BMP-2s but that's because I tend to use them as battle taxis.  None of the BMPs hold up especially well to direct fire, and while the BMP-3 offers a lot of weapons I rarely seem to get them to use them before something blows them up (and by god do they blow up).  BMP-2M is neat but expensive.  Would rather save my points for tanks.  

problem is the 30mm cannon AP ammo on the vanilla BMP-2 doesn't penetrate the Bradley. BMP-2M and  3 does. I've killed a great many brads with  BMPs. But yeah, tanks are much better. Brads are vulnerable  to direct fire too , especially AT-13, rpg-7s vr , btr-82A and BMP-2M/ 3 autocannon fron any aspect.

[Kieme(ITA)]

When it comes to fire support I feel that the BMP-3 can give you quite an advantage over the BMP-2. At the same time, the best all around BMP is in my opinion the BMP-2M, and it's not a case it's also the most expensive one.

Consider this: if you need to shoot an enemy infantry squad hiding inside a building, the BMP-3 will shoot some 100mm HE, but being such projectiles airbursts they won't have the impact you'd expect on the structure. The 30mm gun of BMP-2 and 3 can do extreme damage, but only BMP-2 will Always use it as its main weapon in this situation. The BMP-2M grenade launcher is a bit of a hit and miss, and useful only at close ranges (otherwise it's good for some suppression).

 

[Kieme(ITA)]

problem is the 30mm cannon AP ammo on the vanilla BMP-2 doesn't penetrate the Bradley. BMP-2M and  3 does. I've killed a great many brads with  BMPs. But yeah, tanks are much better. Brads are vulnerable  to direct fire too , especially AT-13, rpg-7s vr , btr-82A and BMP-2M/ 3 autocannon fron any aspect.

I might be wrong but the latest patch upgraded all BMP-2 ammo to the kind that can penetrate the Bradley.

[BTR]

Area fire for the BMP-3 over BMP-2 just seems worth the extra points for me. 100mm AB makes all the difference in forests and towns. 

[Sublime]

I do admit that im seriously considering going back to 3s until more than one player gives me evidence of the 2Ms shooting their Kornets. Yes in all my digging Ive had EXACTLY one player (Russian) who said his BMP2Ms fire their mssiles all the time and hes killed many an abrams.  Has anyone else looked at this?

[Kieme(ITA)]

Just made a quick test.

 

At 2000m range, perfect conditions, a BMP-2M (regular crew) spotted a T-64BV, immediately engaged with 1 missile, it dropped short on the ground at 500m, immediately fired a second shot (same turn), it reached the target and destroyed it.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Repeated the test, the BMP-2 Always engages with an ATGM right after a complete positive spotting, a second one if the first one misses.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[BTR]

Worked for me for 4K range test. Engaged and destroyed two separate targets in one turn. 

[antaress73]

I might be wrong but the latest patch upgraded all BMP-2 ammo to the kind that can penetrate the Bradley.

 

Are you sure about this ? I thought only the  M and BMP-3 had it.

 

[Sublime]

Well im glad it worked for you guys. Can you try running your tests with US equipment being hit and at closer ranges. Say 1k. 4k is pretty rare/extreme engagement range

** ANYONE WITH POSITIVE RESULTS I.E. MISSILE FIRINGS

Can you please either email or link a file, or if not give me the stats- weather - distance- experience - +/- rested or not -target tank how long autocannon use first if any etc

Edited December 25, 2015 by Sublime

[Kieme(ITA)]

In a quick test I had 3 BMP-2M against a single M1 (conscript, facing sidewards), only 1 BMP managed to fire against the M1 (before being killed), and it fired a salvo of 2 ATGM. Range was 1000m.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[BTR]

** ANYONE WITH POSITIVE RESULTS I.E. MISSILE FIRINGS

Can you please either email or link a file, or if not give me the stats- weather - distance- experience - +/- rested or not -target tank how long autocannon use first if any etc

• 3980m;
• day, clear weather; 
• Condition is rested 
• Crew is regular
• Types of armor engaged> M1A2, T-64BM, BM Bulat, T-64BV all without APS

Result: whichever tank was the first target got engaged by BMP-2M using Kornet within the first 15-20 seconds of identification 100% of the time. I ran 10 tests yesterday. 

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by BTR

[Sublime]

Have you tried running tests where the AI had any hope with the cannon at all?

[Kieme(ITA)]

Did some tests with BMP-2M vs Bradley at 1000m, the BMP-2M always engages with 30mm gun and kills the Bradley.

In one test:

At 2000m the first 30mm burst wasn't effective enough (despite striking the Bradley with few shots) and the BMP-2 engaged with a missile, the Bradley did the same, Brad's missile arrived a second first and killed the BMP, which dropped its missile.

 

All in all seems to me the BMP-2M does fire their missiles, but this behaviour depends on range and target type, moreover, against "softer" targets the 30mm gun is used at least as a first strike weapon, and I find this correct.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Sublime]

The 30mm as a first strike seems absolutely correct but since BMP2M cannon wont almost always kill  Abrams or Brads and a Kornet will you.d think a Kornet first shot in a big big majority of cases involving the 2 diff weapons systems

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

re: BMP-3

It might just be me but the dang thing seems like a magnet to lethal fires.  Even going back to CMSF it seemed if something was going to catch that magic RPG-7/AT-4/grenade it was going to be the BMP-3, and it was going to go off like a bomb.  The 100 mm is nice though.  I still prefer the lower end BMPs because I tend to use IFVs (even M2s) mostly to move troops to assault points and then a rearward SBF (which while the BMP-3 is good for this, the 30 MM on the BMP-2 is up to snuff for suppressing objectives), or accompanying tanks (in which case the 125 MM can handle anything forward and has airburst).

It's all personal preference really.  I'll just always default to more tanks, less IFVs, and a general reluctance to place IFVs forward which makes something cheaper attractive.

[Kieme(ITA)]

The 30mm as a first strike seems absolutely correct but since BMP2M cannon wont almost always kill  Abrams or Brads and a Kornet will you.d think a Kornet first shot in a big big majority of cases involving the 2 diff weapons systems

 

Well, there are situations where you wouldn't like that, for example when your BMP is at less than 1000m and is engaging an enemy on the side or rear. In that case you do want the 30mm to be used as a first option, at least for the first few seconds of the engagement. If the missiles are Always preferred then you'd have the 30mm used only against infantry, and you would most probably lose fights where your missile drops due to a misguide or hits a tree and a 30mm burst would have made you win immediately...

 

My conclusion is that right now the system works, but it's not perfect. Given the amount of possible situations the only improvement to the system would be to give us players a button (or more than one) to set the bahaviour of a specific unit when it comes to multiple weapons Platform. For example:

-"use missiles only"

-"use mix"  (what we have now)

-"use gun only"

Other than this I can't see how any modification to the actual system might work, again, due to the variety of possible situations that you can find on the field.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[antaress73]

Russian thirty is very good against bradleys as long as the first few rounds disable the Bradley enough to avoid "revenge before we die" return fire when getting the drop frontally because sometimes even a short burst from a Bradley on the process of being ventilated can kill your BMP and save the Bradley or bring about a mutual kill.

But its not only the Bradley. I've lost two Bradleys in the same turn where they got the drop on a BMP-3 ... Were hammering it with 25mm and at the last second  before the BMP goes Nuclear it fires a stabber ATGM ( it was at less than 200 meters) and kills my Brad. Very Russian like.

[Sublime]

we'll just have to agree to disagree in the argument of BMPs over Bradleys.  Can BMP cannon kill Brads? Absolutely.  But its just way to easy and common for my BMPs to come out on the losing end to think theres any comparison.  I just dont handle Brads with the same kid gloves I do BMPs.  After all too - Bradleys CAN and WILL KO Soviet MBTs from the side and rear.  Thats just not happening with the BMP. (except for the Kornet which to me remains mythical

[antaress73]

we'll just have to agree to disagree in the argument of BMPs over Bradleys.  Can BMP cannon kill Brads? Absolutely.  But its just way to easy and common for my BMPs to come out on the losing end to think theres any comparison.  I just dont handle Brads with the same kid gloves I do BMPs.  After all too - Bradleys CAN and WILL KO Soviet MBTs from the side and rear.  Thats just not happening with the BMP. (except for the Kornet which to me remains mythical

i didnt say the BMP is as good as the Brad in the game and   I did mention that even when the BMP is hammering à Brad there s a risk of losing or mutual destruction . You have to be skilled to use them effectively or apply sound doctrine .