Clearing Tank mines?

[PanzerShrimp]

Is there a way?

 

1. I understand you can use pioneers to mark mines to get infantry through but what if they are anti tank mines? As i understand you cant mark mines for tanks meaning if there are tank mines somewhere there is nothing you can do about it? Should I being using move or hunt when using pioneers to find mines?

 

2. Is there a way to tell if the mines the engineers find are personnel or AT ?

 

I would have thought you can blow them but only works when theirs an obstacle around TO blow????

 

3. I played a scenario where there were a lot of personnel mines so I just used my t-34's to clear them, unfortunately I didn't know theirs a high chance of destroying there tracks, so that's no valid tactic, any vehicles in CMRT that are good for clearing personal mines?

 

I have done some searching and found you can use 152 artillery to clear but.... don't see that being a valid tactic.

 

thx.

 

 

 

[Baneman]

1. Only in CMBN with the flail tank in the Vehicle pack. In CMRT, you're out of luck.

 

2. I don't think so, but if your engineers found them without one of them dying, probably AT

    As I understand it, the engineers/pioneers should be in or adjacent to the mined AS to detect ( or mark ) them - but it can take a turn or two ( or even longer ). Thus most mines are found by the first "bang".

 

3. Pretty much what you did is the standard tactic (if you can't go around ) - choose one tank to be the "dozer" and give the commander some extra vodka.

 

I've not encountered mines much, but I think 105mm and 120mm work too - how many you have to drop in an AS to ( have a chance to ) fully clear it, I have no idea.

[Jim1954]

The Russians did use a mine clearing tank for the initial phase of Bagration, if you can believe everything you see in Soviet Storm on Utube. The capability is in the engine, we know that. Who knows, maybe they could eventually find the way to the Eastern Front. Granted they were probably not very common, but you never know. Maybe RT will get something like a vehicle pack in the future.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I've not encountered mines much, but I think 105mm and 120mm work too - how many you have to drop in an AS to ( have a chance to ) fully clear it, I have no idea.

Artillery must be 150mm or larger to detonate mines. I don't recall if the same holds true for direct fire HE.

[General Jack Ripper]

I thought the Russians just ran tanks through minefields in single file? When they stop exploding the lane is clear?

[Baneman]

Artillery must be 150mm or larger to detonate mines. I don't recall if the same holds true for direct fire HE.

 

Thanks Vanir, I stand corrected.

[PanzerShrimp]

I just had a game, were i sent a 5 mam engineer team on move down a road, no enemy forces at all, no mines found.

 

Sent my only flame t34 down, hit a mine and died, but the sign is white with a green cross??

 

What does white with a green cross mean??

 

So this I guess is also askin, is there a way to tell the difference between mines IF engineers find them before detonating them?

[MOS:96B2P]

I just had a game, were i sent a 5 mam engineer team on move down a road, no enemy forces at all, no mines found.

 

Sent my only flame t34 down, hit a mine and died, but the sign is white with a green cross??

 

What does white with a green cross mean??

 

So this I guess is also askin, is there a way to tell the difference between mines IF engineers find them before detonating them?

 

Antitank minefields can be marked but there is no effect.  Infantry can traverse them without risk and vehicles don't benefit from marking.  

Red sign with a skull and crossbones = Active non-marked minefield.

Off white sign with a skull and crossbones = A marked minefield. 

Green sign with a white X = Neutralized minefield (all mines detonated) 

 

It must have been an AT minefield allowing the engineers to walk over it.  If the engineers had remained stationary for a time in or next to the action spot containing the mines a red sign with a skull and crossbones would have appeared.  I think the experience level of the engineers also plays a roll.  

 

I don't know a way to identify which of the three types of minefields are in an action square except for the hard way.     

[A Canadian Cat]

The simple rule to follow is after the mines are marked it is OK to have infantry cross them (choose move so no one is careless) but never cross with vehicles.  Even anti personnel mines can disable a vehicle.

[Bulletpoint]

The simple rule to follow is after the mines are marked it is OK to have infantry cross them (choose move so no one is careless) but never cross with vehicles.  Even anti personnel mines can disable a vehicle.

 

Never chose "move" to cross a minefield  Doesn't matter if it's marked or not.

 

Reason? Because when your troops use "move", they start to run if they take fire. Just a stray round will do. Or if one of them steps on a mine. This can happen even if the field is marked. You don't want your guys to start running in a minefield.

 

Instead, use hunt or slow.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[A Canadian Cat]

The problem with hunt is they stop when they take that stray round.  And slow is really tiring.  I agree move can be a problem in unsafe areas but so is hunt. I guess if there was a risk of getting shot at, slow would be the better choice.

[womble]

If you're going to use Hunt, also, you need to give the unit a tightly restricted Target Arc so that it doesn't react to spots and tentative spots that are outside that arc. It'll still stop-and-drop if any actual bullets come nearby, but at least it won't spook just because of remembering a 20 minute old "?" half a click away...

 

I always use Slow, though. Minefields are rarely so deep and contiguous that they have to crawl very far.

[Bulletpoint]

The problem with hunt is they stop when they take that stray round.  And slow is really tiring.  I agree move can be a problem in unsafe areas but so is hunt. I guess if there was a risk of getting shot at, slow would be the better choice.

 

Better to have them stop than start running. I've had situations where I used MOVE because I thought for sure the area was safe. Then some enemy far away gets a bead on them through a tiny gap in the foliage and sends a bullet their way, triggering a run, triggering mines, triggering other teams start running...

 

But yes, as Womble said: Best option in the game is SLOW, even though it's less realistic because you would rarely crawl through a minefield. You'd walk single file stepping in the footprints of the guy in front of you.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[womble]

...you would rarely crawl through a minefield. You'd walk single file stepping in the footprints of the guy in front of you.

Brings to mind the minefield scene in Kelly's Heroes... each trooper making their cautious way to the nearest point that another troop has already marked as cleared, with the troops nearest the back walking most of the way across the field... Is that really how it was done?

 

Also, the "headless chicken" reactions to one of your team mates stepping on a mine seems a little extreme. It might be one of a spectrum of reactions, most likely to occur in a Conscript or Green element, but a Veteran, or even Regular unit should have a good chance of just stopping "dead" at the point of first realising they're in mines... and that just doesn't seem to happen. 

[Bulletpoint]

Brings to mind the minefield scene in Kelly's Heroes... each trooper making their cautious way to the nearest point that another troop has already marked as cleared, with the troops nearest the back walking most of the way across the field... Is that really how it was done?

 

 

I'm not a WW2 expert, but it seems the only rational way of doing it, if you absolutely have to walk through a minefield. One guy in front, looking for tripwires and preferably with a long stick to poke the ground before every step, then his mates walking single file behind him in his footsteps.

 

 

 

Also, the "headless chicken" reactions to one of your team mates stepping on a mine seems a little extreme. It might be one of a spectrum of reactions, most likely to occur in a Conscript or Green element, but a Veteran, or even Regular unit should have a good chance of just stopping "dead" at the point of first realising they're in mines... and that just doesn't seem to happen. 

 

Not quite sure what you mean here - as far as I've seen, this is how it works in the game:

 

If you're on MOVE orders, you start to run FAST, headless chicken style, when you take fire (and exploding mines count as taking fire). Doesn't matter if you are green or veteran level.

 

But yes, we agree that experienced troops should stop dead the moment they realise they are in a minefield. At least on MOVE orders. I think I've been banging on about that before

 

For green troops, it could also heavily depend on leadership modifier, as it would probably be the sergeant calling out "Freeze! We're in a minefield".

Edited August 1, 2015 by Bulletpoint

[womble]

Not quite sure what you mean here - as far as I've seen, this is how it works in the game:

 

If you're on MOVE orders, you start to run FAST, headless chicken style, when you take fire (and exploding mines count as taking fire). Doesn't matter if you are green or veteran level.

 

But yes, we agree that experienced troops should stop dead the moment they realise they are in a minefield. At least on MOVE orders. I think I've been banging on about that before

 

For green troops, it could also heavily depend on leadership modifier, as it would probably be the sergeant calling out "Freeze! We're in a minefield".

I'm not talking about anything to do with the interaction between movement mode and incoming fire in that post, simply the reaction to the first guy stepping on a Bouncing Betty which should at least have a chance (increasing with experience and leadership) of having the element do the right tactical thing, rather than always making them run, forward if they're in (relatively) good morale state, backward if not.

 

The interaction of incoming fire, being pinned in a minefield, experience and morale-and-motivation is a step or two more complex...

[Bulletpoint]

I'm not talking about anything to do with the interaction between movement mode and incoming fire in that post, simply the reaction to the first guy stepping on a Bouncing Betty which should at least have a chance (increasing with experience and leadership) of having the element do the right tactical thing, rather than always making them run, forward if they're in (relatively) good morale state, backward if not.

 

The interaction of incoming fire, being pinned in a minefield, experience and morale-and-motivation is a step or two more complex...

 

Well, what I meant is that starting to run when taking fire is currently into the MOVE order.