Can you order a unit to hold fire.

[Pat O]

  Hey guys is there a way to make a unit hold Fire other than just giving a short target arc?

[AttorneyAtWar]

  Hey guys is there a way to make a unit hold Fire other than just giving a short target arc?

 

Other than having them hide (Even than its not a complete guarantee), there is no way to reliably have them hold fire.

[c3k]

Covered arcs.

 

They should not fire outside of the covered arc unless they feel threatened. So, HIDE and 360 degree COVERED ARC at 20m and they'll hold fire. (Make the arc distance and segment anything you think appropriate for their situation.)

[Pat O]

Ok Thanks I never tried a 360 arc I thought it only had a 180 degree radius. Good to know. Appreciate it once again.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Ok Thanks I never tried a 360 arc I thought it only had a 180 degree radius. Good to know. Appreciate it once again.

 

Hold shift to make a circle target arc when the target arc command is selected.

[LukeFF]

Ok Thanks I never tried a 360 arc I thought it only had a 180 degree radius. Good to know. Appreciate it once again.

 

Yep, just hold down the Shift key while setting the arc.

 

Also note: the willingness of your troops to hold their fire depends on their level of experience. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by LukeFF

[Pat O]

I have only been playing a day so lots of learning for me.

[Pat O]

Again thank you so much

[John Kettler]

Pat Oglesbee,

 

Are you trying to prevent them from firing altogether, or are you trying to keep them from firing in order to, say, execute an ambush? If the latter, then circular coverage is only going to make things harder on you, since the angular coverage of the arc defines the priority spotting sector for the unit. For an ambush, you want to be cagey and limit angular coverage, not only to define the engagement in your terms but also for the sake of force preservation, since a large arc creates many more possible situations in which your men may take it upon themselves to open up.  

 

Otherwise, the short radius circular arc is the way to go. Speaking from bitter experience in CMBN, the advice about short circular arcs is extremely sound, because otherwise your men are quite likely to open up on the first foe they see. My guys in CMBN were trying to slip across a field in early dawn and assault the sleepy Germans in some ville. Unfortunately, the whole battle was lost almost as soon as it  began because I, fairly new to the game, failed to restrain my impetuous on-map leader's warlike tendencies with a short circular arc. When he saw his first German, he promptly, and ineffectively, opened fire clear across that expanse of open field. This led to some very annoyed 88s opening up, wrecking my force on the Start Line! Call it a hard but useful lesson. Something else which hasn't been mentioned is that keeping the force in command, preferably with a decent leader (0 or better), will increase the likelihood of controlling the trigger happy in your force. Speaking of being in command, Alt-z will toggle command lines. Red is bad (out of command) Black is good (in command). Same logic as ink color in accounting. You want to always be in the Black.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler 

Edited May 17, 2015 by John Kettler

[womble]

 

...the angular coverage of the arc defines the priority spotting sector for the unit... 

This is not a true statement. Whether it's an inaccurately worded expression of a true understanding, or a misapprehension at core, I can't say, but infantry units* maintain 360 degree awareness regardless of their facing, and Target Arcs determine facing and orientation (for determining choice of position within the AS to achieve best cover/vision), not the "focus" of an element's attention. The primary function of a Target Arc is to restrict the unit's fire to spotted targets which are within the coverage of the Arc. Facing (and thus orientation) is a secondary function, and it neither restricts nor gives an advantage to spotting without or within the area.

 

It is true that a broader arc creates "...more possible situations..." when your troops may open up, but narrowing your TAs gives you more chance of the enemy popping up or moving quickly outside the coverage of the arc. Yes, there is a time for narrower TAs, but it is far from true to say that circular TAs "...only (my emphasis) make things harder for you...". There are many cases where restricting fire to a tight arc can get you into trouble (by preventing your troops from responding to an unexpected and existential threat) or make your ambush fail entirely because you made them too narrow (maybe the enemy didn't quite enter your TA this turn, but you got spotted and don't know it -  the opponent can order the surprise reversed and you could continue holding fire, hoping for a better, closer initial volley).

 

* all units would like to maintian 360 awareness, but most vehicles have vision ports restricting which way they can actually see; facing and TAs change the way these bear, and so do change the spotting abilities in a given direction.

[John Kettler]

womble and Pat Oglesbee,

 

Broadly speaking, a Target Arc covering some defined sector is generally going to be more useful than a circle, especially if you have weaponry which can't readily change orientation. It is all too easy to wind up fruitlessly "chasing" a target you can't turn fast enough to keep in your sights. Any kind of gun not on a fast all round traverse mount falls under this rubric. Setting a Target Arc involves not just geometric analysis but a certain amount of art, too. The way you set your Target Arcs has much to do with how you fight, which is driven by all sorts of considerations: hit probability, likelihood of being spotted when firing, cover status, doctrine and more, to include troop quality, troop state and leadership. Not to mention your style as a commander! Here is what the book says about the Target Arc command.

 

From the Combat Mission Game Engine Manual Version 3.0, page 50

 

TARGET ARC (excerpts)

 

Paragraph 1

 

"The Target Arc command orders units to only fire at enemies within a certain target area and/or range..."

 

(quote immediately below is referring to the circular arc)

"This will create a 360 degree arc around the selected unit, allowing you to set the distance at which the unit will engage enemies but no specific direction."

 

Returning to the general case, we see

 

Paragraph 2

 

"Any visible enemy units that are inside this area, or that move into this area will be fired upon. Any enemy units outside of this target arc will be ignored (until self-preservation takes over and the Tactical AI decides to override player orders; e.g., if an enemy unit suddenly pops up at extremely short range)."

 

Paragraph 4

 

"The target arc increases the chances that units will recognize and engage an enemy threat within the target area quickly."

 

Recapping, The Target Arc does indeed focus the attention of the unit on the target area encompassed by the Target Arc. The more circumscribed the Target Arc, in terms of angular coverage and range, the easier it is to detect and engage the enemy. This isn't merely mental concentration, but is very much a product of looks per unit time. A given unit, covering a narrow sector and under identical conditions, is going to have an inherent advantage over one looking in all directions because the former typically can scan and rescan the same area many times in the time it takes the other unit looking in all directions to cover that same area once.

 

Let's take a simple nautical example. Perfect weather. Clear sky. You're the lookout on a surfaced sub. You and everyone else on that boat live or die on your ability to spot inbound aircraft in time to clear the bridge and dive. The job absolutely must be done and well, but how much easier would life be, and how much more effective your search if, say, you got a radio warning from HQ that coast watchers had observed, say, four ASW planes take off at a given from a defined base and were observed headed your way broadly from the west? Since you know where to look, this allows you to look harder in that sector than you could if you have to keep scanning the entire sky. The latter also creates the opportunity for the planes to come rushing in while your back is facing the enemy.

 

In defense analysis parlance, you're talking about the difference between a cued search and a general search. By knowing where to look, your efficiency in searching goes up considerably. But because there is much less time in which you don't have your eyes covering the area in which the threat will arrive, not only do you have more physical looks, but you also have significantly less in the way of blind time--periods in which the foe can close without your being aware of it. IOW, the frequency of looks interferes with the foe's ability to get into firing range and clobber you before you can notice the threat and react. 

 

The effects of the Target Arc command are doing exactly what  Search Theory, wartime Operations Research and combat experience show. Anything which tells the defenders where to look; which limits the areas which must be covered by whatever sensors and weapons are in use, improves the effectiveness of the defending force. Can you get yourself into trouble by making your TA coverage zones too narrow and/or too short in range? Sure. I have, and it cost me! And if the situation is highly fluid, you may need to set up for all around defense. But don't expect the same level of performance from all around defense as you'll get from a defense oriented to cover a defined threat axis. Besides, as the manual states, unit self-preservation is always there and will kick in once the AI decides (based on, as seen by us, arcane rituals far beyond mere mortals' ability to comprehend) it's needed.  

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited May 18, 2015 by John Kettler

[womble]

Sadly, the manual has been wrong or over-flavoured before, and Paragraph 4 does not reflect my experiences. Infantry with TAs spot things outside those TAs just fine. I just did a little test, with 8 small infantry teams advancing from the cardinal and primary intercardials on a team at their centre, and spotting time depended more on the pathfinding of the moving troops and how it affected their distance from the observer team at any given time than it did on whether the TA was pointed at them or not. Neither does it reflect what we've been told on here, to my recollection.

 

Whether a weapon system should be given a broad or narrow arc does depend a bit on its traverse rate, for certain. But it remains fallacious to state that circular TAs are universally, or even often, detrimental. The times a unit moves fast enough to evade the traverse of a gun are outweighed by the times a unit doesn't appear in a too-restrictive TA.

[cool breeze]

But if the guys with the 360 arc are in a building they will tend to cover the windows on all sides but if you do a smaller one the guys get more concentrated.  At least before the bullets start flying.

[John Kettler]

womble,

 

If the manual is wrong, then it needs to be fixed forthwith, especially since it covers every game with the Version 3.0 CMx2 engine. I said specifically there are times when it's wise to put down a circular arc, but on balance, I believe a player is better served, if ambush is the objective, to at least get the troops looking in the right direction, to the extent such a thing is knowable.

 

cool breeze,

 

Good to know. From what I've seen, such as in my last QB, the AI does a vastly better job of distributing men to windows than it did, for example, back in the CMBN Demo or in 2.12. In my last QB, I had a squad split to screen against an infantry advance on my left and an armored attack on my right. A Target Arc handled one, and a Target Armor Arc the other. The latter was done so effectively that even an unexpected offroad move by a Hummer was handled, with the result that a turreted Hummer on the move died, despite a wall which hid most of the vehicle except the turret. On the other side of the same store, enfilade fire practically wiped out American infantry driving to take the main building in town.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[Thewood1]

I am not sure the manual is wrong, it is just written very ambiguously.  It can be read into from either perspective.  This is the umpteenth time this has come up.  Steve came in to a CMBN forum last year and clarified that arcs have no effect on spotting in the open.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

I'm surprised that nobody have mentioned a "Pause" button yet. The one of the three quick action buttons. "Pause" + small arc + "Hide" = stationary and passive unit.

Edited May 19, 2015 by L0ckAndL0ad

[MOS:96B2P]

I'm surprised that nobody have mentioned a "Pause" button yet. The one of the three quick action buttons. "Pause" + small arc + "Hide" = stationary and passive unit.

 

I get the small arc+hide = harder to spot unit.  How does pause help?  If I understand correctly, Pause is to pause movement.  But if the unit is stationary, as in an ambush position, I don't think there would be anything to pause.  I will often Slow an infantry unit into a position + small Target arc + Hide.  Then at the appropriate time cancel hide, drop target arc and watch the fireworks.    

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Pause prevents unit from moving when it goes into panic mode and creates its own movement commands (like, after being scared by sudden appearance of enemy tanks or anything else scary enough).

[MOS:96B2P]

Pause prevents unit from moving when it goes into panic mode and creates its own movement commands (like, after being scared by sudden appearance of enemy tanks or anything else scary enough).

 

Hmmmm.  So it keeps them from running away.  Interesting.  I may have to try that.  I have some units in a PBEM game that are probably thinking about running away. 

[A Canadian Cat]

I would like to hear how it goes @MOS:96B2P.