BMP-3 vs Bradley

[slysniper]

 Because, as it stands now, I really don't see how this asset can be used in a direct confrontation.

Well, see, this is where I wonder. Because if it is me. I am wanting to take on the Bradley with 3 bmp's , not one.

 

So how does it work out then. Does 3 BMP's  manage to kill the Bradley and on a average how many BMP's are lost. Now if the game gets that right , then I'm not too concerned. because in general that is the only way you should be approaching it. Because in a one to one duel. No matter what system the BMP uses first. It likely is going to be dead no matter what.

 

 

But none of this takes away from the fact as to if it is selecting the best choice as to what to fire first.  And tweeking actions to help a unit is not going to happen if that is not what it is judged to do in real life. They do try to get it right, not to try and build something that plays balanced for the sake of play.

[antaress73]

I did some test , 6 on all .. Bmp-3m with aréna and HQ unit acting as commander. 480 meters, 4-2 for the Bradley in 6 tests. Used 30mm all the time.

[antaress73]

The communication bug between the squad leader acting as commander using the fancy optics and the gunner may affect the results somewhat, wait for patch 1.02 and the Russians may get more lethal especially human to human

[Kieme(ITA)]

Thanks Antaress,

 

my big hope is that a confrontation between IFV in a quick battle will be possible afterall. Given the points system (i know adjustements on this are coming too with next patch) will let us players play more interesting battles (from this comes the fact that you have to face Bradleys with a similar amount of BMPs). Also, the fact that BMP-2 30mm gun will be as lethal is a big improvement.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Djiaux]

I was going to suggest running some test with some passengers on the BMP3, so far I have done some tests and without some passengers BMP-X are moles but it improves with some passengers.

 

The incorrect weapon choice is a big handicap, it should be solved, also when using BMP-3 I would like to be able to choose the 30mm cannon to area fire, right now we can only choose between machinegun fire and 100mm cannon fire.

 

 

Don't you think that in CMSF Bradleys were far less poweful? Back in the day I always had to rely on my US troops to make a good work as Bradleys could fail often, right now they seem to spot in no time, they fire TOW missiles fast and precise and they are very very superior to BMPs. In CMSF they were superior but not that much and I often lost a Bradley to BMPs.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Thanks for sharing.

 

Probably we had older versions of Bradleys in CMSF, not sure they had the CITV. I didn't recall CMSF Bradleys to be so fast with spotting. It is also possible that all combat vehicles have been revised with this matter, maybe in order to cope with the modern field of battle and the more symmetrical warfare.

By the way indeed, I also had the sensation that CMSF Bradley were better matched by the BMP-2 than they are now with the BMP-3.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Vanir Ausf B]

Did some small scale testing. At 500m the BMP does favor the missile although there is some random variation.

ATGM accuracy can be affected by many factors, but it was a perfect 10 for 10 in my test on flat featureless ground. It certainly kills faster than the 30mm cannon. If you ignore the APS factor it's not at all clear that the cannon is a better choice. APS does screw up the calculus, however.
 

Probably we had older versions of Bradleys in CMSF, not sure they had the CITV. I didn't recall CMSF Bradleys to be so fast with spotting.

 

I never played CMSF but I am almost certain that thermal sights didn't do anything in that game but let you see through smoke. In Black Sea they make you spot better almost all time. The Bradly has the same Gen II FLIR as the Abrams, which is the most advanced of any vehicle in the game.
 

[Kieme(ITA)]

Thanks for sharing.

 

I wonder how a real BMP-3 tankman would evaluate the situation, I mean, what would the real doctrine be in the use of the many weapons of BMP-3.

Personally, I have Always thought the ATGM fired by guns (being them on IFV or MBT) as a long-range fighting resource, something that stretched out the potential kill zone of the weapon thanks to HEAT charge(s) and long range. With the exception that I imagine the TOW2 and AT-10 (or Others) to be the best possible asset for an IFV to try to hit and destroy an enemy MBT.

 

I don't know how the AI routines work in CM games, but I hope that if they corss-reference the options available to the shooter, range and target ID, it would be possible to make the BMP-3 use the ATGM at extremely long distances against anything or even at very short distances in case of an MBT.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Thewood1]

I would think the 30mm would be a faster short range option than the ATGM.

 

As to thermals in CMSF, it was stated several times that thermals gave a pretty significant spotting bonus day and night.

[ikalugin]

I think that all things considered - 100mm HE-FRAG is a valid option for the first shot.

[Thewood1]

Really?  A HE shell from a relatively low velocity gun vs sabot round from a 30mm high velocity gun.  I am just surprised by that.  I could also be misunderstanding what the 100mm gun is capable of.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I'd like to see it, how the 100mm standard ammo would perform against another vehicle. the projectile is called "ABHE", what does it stand for?

[Thewood1]

I had one instance in all of my testing at 1000m where the BMP3 fired the 100mm ABHE.  I think it missed.  Don't know what parameters are used to make that decision, but did one out a hundred or so times.

 

Does it maybe stand for Air Burst HE?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Thewood1

[Kieme(ITA)]

Yes, right. In fact the projectile Always explodes on top of the target.

[Stagler]

Yeah it is air burst round, glagtm is at-10

[ikalugin]

HE-FRAG hit would probably blow of ERA plating, disable scopes, ect. Ie you may not get a full on kill, but you would disable and severely dammage the hostile IFV.

[Thewood1]

But couldn't you get that with 30mm sabot also?

[Kieme(ITA)]

Probably the 30mm will get more damage to internal modules (crew etc.), while the HE explosion, while kept "outside" of the vehicle will most probably damage outer elements, such as the TOW launcher (which is quite fragile I have noticed, lost it more than once for a not too far artillery shell).

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[ikalugin]

With the 100mm HE-FRAG in the barrel I would fire that first and then use the 30mm autocannon. The reason behind this is simple - stock BMP3s do not have TGMs in their autoloader, they are stored separately and require manual loading.

 

Bahcha-U combat modules solves this (and many others, such as the scopes) BMP3 fire power related issues.

Edited April 6, 2015 by ikalugin

[Thewood1]

In CM it doesn't matter.  Round in the tube decisions aren't modeled.  It assumes the round in the tube is the correct one.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Is there any source of information on this Bahcha-U modules? I'd like to know more.

[akd]

Bakhcha-U is the turret used on BMD-4M.

http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php/en/productions/armament-for-light-and-hard-armour/bakhcha

[Kieme(ITA)]

Interesting.

 

So we could foresee a future module sporting a new version of BMP-3, like a BMP-3M-Bakhcha?

[Vanir Ausf B]

As to thermals in CMSF, it was stated several times that thermals gave a pretty significant spotting bonus day and night.

 

Well that's interesting. When Black Sea began development they certainly did not and getting them to do so required a lot of trial and error.

[Thewood1]

Steve at one time went over spotting and optics in the CMSF forum and stated that thermals provided better overall spotting capabilties.  I ran a bunch of tests at night to confirm, but there is no way to test during the day.