Saferight Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) BREAKING NEWS: Russian Army To Standardize AK-12 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/01/27/breaking-news-russian-army-standardize-ak-12/ Better get to work on it BFC Edited February 5, 2015 by Saferight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Jane's confirms: http://www.janes.com/article/48463/russia-selects-new-assault-rifles?utm_campaign=%5bPMP%5d_PC5308_J360%204.2.15_KV_Deployment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakheart Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 didn't this happen like 2-3 weeks ago? I know it happened before release. I personally was rooting for the AEK because the AK12 looks like ass. Just super sayn' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreDay Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Even though this news source would have you think otherwise, AK-12 and AEK variants are still in the running. I am honestly not convinced that either one is exponentially better than the other; but they are major lobbying efforts at play to push AK-12... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Interesting. You know I swear I read some time ago that the Russian Army was going with a new manufacturer of it's small arms. For the life of me I can't remember the name but I guess it doesn't matter since they are staying with Kalashnikov. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saferight Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 didn't this happen like 2-3 weeks ago? I know it happened before release. I personally was rooting for the AEK because the AK12 looks like ass. Just super sayn' guess i havent been keeping up with my firearm news, and yes AEK is definitely the badder looking of the two. Even though this news source would have you think otherwise, AK-12 and AEK variants are still in the running. I am honestly not convinced that either one is exponentially better than the other; but they are major lobbying efforts at play to push AK-12... Probably has something to do with saving Izmash and Kalashnikov Group. I wonder if the sanctions have put a dent into their civilians sales in the west? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Appreciate this information and the vid, but concur with Oakheart on characterization of AK-12. Maybe it's the paint scheme, too, but to me, it looks butt ugly (and the weapon's butt does look ugly, too), elevating the AK-47 to the level of visual art by comparison. I'm not saying the AN-12 (also the name of an Antonov C-130 clone) isn't a tough reliable weapon. To get through State trials it would have to be, but I think soldiers prefer weapons that do their jobs well and look good. If both did well on the weapon end, I'd want the AEK-971, which not only gets the military job done but is scary looking (intimidation's always good) and has clean cool lines as well. And let's face it, if FMS figure in, sex appeal, if you will, is apart of the marketing equation. Aesthetics most definitely do figure in, and I now show this was an issue which concerned catapult designers in ancient Greece. Philon, circa 250 BCE, Construction of War Engines Referring to a new type of catapult called the wedge engine, he has this to say, and it's very much marketing related, as is his prior listing of features and benefits for his innovative and more powerful version of a well-established key weapon: "Finally, in appearance it is no less imposing than the others..." Cited in Campbell's Greek and Roman Military Writers: Selected Readings, p184. Regards, John Kettler Edited February 6, 2015 by John Kettler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I originally rooted for A-545 (simpler AEK-971), but I'm starting to lean towards the AK-12 lately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 And, by the way, (please use google translate) - both A-545 and AK-12 are going in for army trials in limited serial production. In effect, nothing is still decided. http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1742976 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvp7 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Whatever they choose it's going to be a step back aesthetically Why are they replacing AK-74 anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Appreciate this information and the vid, but concur with Oakheart on characterization of AK-12. Maybe it's the paint scheme, too, but to me, it looks butt ugly (and the weapon's butt does look ugly, too), elevating the AK-47 to the level of visual art by comparison. I'm not saying the AN-12 (also the name of an Antonov C-130 clone) isn't a tough reliable weapon. To get through State trials it would have to be, but I think soldiers prefer weapons that do their jobs well and look good. If both did well on the weapon end, I'd want the AEK-971, which not only gets the military job done but is scary looking (intimidation's always good) and has clean cool lines as well. And let's face it, if FMS figure in, sex appeal, if you will, is apart of the marketing equation. Aesthetics most definitely do figure in, and I now show this was an issue which concerned catapult designers in ancient Greece. I don't think it is just esthetics. The AK-12 is cluttered with things sticking out all over the place. Now I haven't handled one, so there might not be the problem I am imagining, but I'd be afraid of something getting hung up on my webbing or some other environmental stuff to get hung up on. The AEK-971 is a much smoother job and less likely to get caught on something or have something knocked off, like a sight. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'm partial to proper stocks, so AK wins visually there. Damn rails though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikalugin Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Atleast it is not one of those weird Stechkins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Business is pretty good. Embargo or no embargo. Gotta like the new slogan: http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/06/news/companies/kalashnikov-profits/index.html The AK47 will soon be made in the USA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Atleast it is not one of those weird Stechkins. That weapon reminds me of the Mauser C96. Not that they especially look alike, but they are similar in function. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Business is pretty good. Embargo or no embargo. Gotta like the new slogan: Sorta makes sense the gun maker is doing well in a country that's going guns over butter. Re: AK-12 Russia would be well served just to pick one weapons system per role and stick with it. They're sort of the king of having three tanks types for one mission, two or three "standard" systems, and a various spread of systems that are in field testing for a decade before ghosting. Rifles especially, this isn't 1945 with bolt action, semi-auto, and assault rifles are all wandering around the battlefield, or it's a major showdown between 7.62X51 rifles and smaller 7.62X39 or 5.56X45 calibers. If you dropped AK-74s with sufficient rails/somehow made them NATO compatible onto US troops, you'd see no real change in squad capabilities, and the same would go with M16A4s if they were actually AK-16A4s. Rifles need to be generally reliable, mostly accurate, and cheap enough to give everyone one. I would suggest the greater problem in rifles is that the only meaningful advances in rifle design since the late 70's-early 80's has all been accessories. The reason the M16/M4 endures is simply because nothing out there offers so great an advantage as to be worth replacing every rifle in the US inventory. I'd suggest the AK-74 is much the same, it's a good gun. The AN-94, AK-12, and the like all haven't really offered a massive change in capabilities (with neat tricks like the AN-94's two shot burst not really being revolutionary must buy features). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saferight Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 here is some cool videos of AEK-971 and AN-94 this one is a break down of the AN-94 and a very early AEK-971 range time with with the AEK-971 range time with AN-94 (doesnt go so well) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm dubious about the widespread use in the future and massive deals. Russians still have insane amounts of 7.62mm AKMs and 5.45mm AKs in the storages. Multiple times they have men to use them. In the large scale, I think there's not going to be any significant impact, will the troopers use AK12 or older AK74 generation weapons inthe future. Both are so akin. And wars are won or lost with totally other platforms than basic infantry rifles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm dubious about the widespread use in the future and massive deals. Russians still have insane amounts of 7.62mm AKMs and 5.45mm AKs in the storages. Multiple times they have men to use them. In the large scale, I think there's not going to be any significant impact, will the troopers use AK12 or older AK74 generation weapons inthe future. Both are so akin. And wars are won or lost with totally other platforms than basic infantry rifles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexey K Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Actually Russian media stated that AK-12 will be supplied to "elite" troops that are being reequipped to "Ratnik" infantry equipment suite. It said that in 2015 fifty to seventy thouthands "Ratniks" will be supplied. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saferight Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 http://www.janes.com/article/49157/russian-army-to-trial-both-ak-12-and-a-545-rifles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Saferight, Were Mikhail Kalashnikov still around and were the AN-12 to be adopted, I believe he'd be deeply conflicted: glad to see the firm be able to carry on, but unhappy that the 5.45 was still in his Avtomat. He made it quite clear he considered the 5.45 x 39 mm cartridge to be militarily inferior to the bigger, heavier 7.62 x 39 mm for the AK-47. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Were Mikhail Kalashnikov still around and were the AN-12 to be adopted, I believe he'd be deeply conflicted: glad to see the firm be able to carry on, but unhappy that the 5.45 was still in his Avtomat. He made it quite clear he considered the 5.45 x 39 mm cartridge to be militarily inferior to the bigger, heavier 7.62 x 39 mm for the AK-47. On a similar note, the original designers of the tank came up with the TOG-2. Being the first one to get it right, does not ensure you will be right in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) ... He made it quite clear he considered the 5.45 x 39 mm cartridge to be militarily inferior to the bigger, heavier 7.62 x 39 mm for the AK-47. My humble opinnion is that 5.45x39mm is propably the best overall compromise among the current military rifle calibers in large scale use. No wonder, because it's also the latest. Tapered case for positive extraction, low recoil impulse, optimized projectile for penetration with standard ball (7N6M, 7N10), Good BC and flat trajectory, components made of steel instead of brass and lead which is economical, lightweight rounds... Just for starters. Edited February 26, 2015 by wee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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