Spotters can't "see" what the squad right next to them can see

[Zenomorph]

As the title notes, I had an infantry squad that could "see" an AT gun in some woods. I wanted to blast that thing (and the likely other nearby guns) to smithereens before my tanks showed up and so moved a arty observer into the same grid square as the infantry squad. No dice. The observer couldn't see what the guy standing next to him could see. I did make sure the observer was facing the right direction. So on the next several turns I gave the the observer unit hunt commands and moved them on each turn into each of the surrounding grid squares where that original infantry squad was. The observer still could never see the AT gun. Any advice? I should mention that all this time the infantry squad never lost site of the AT gun. Thank you as always for the help and to the devs for a great game!

[AttorneyAtWar]

As the title notes, I had an infantry squad that could "see" an AT gun in some woods. I wanted to blast that thing (and the likely other nearby guns) to smithereens before my tanks showed up and so moved a arty observer into the same grid square as the infantry squad. No dice. The observer couldn't see what the guy standing next to him could see. I did make sure the observer was facing the right direction. So on the next several turns I gave the the observer unit hunt commands and moved them on each turn into each of the surrounding grid squares where that original infantry squad was. The observer still could never see the AT gun. Any advice? I should mention that all this time the infantry squad never lost site of the AT gun. Thank you as always for the help and to the devs for a great game!

A screenshot would be very useful in this kind of situation, its impossible for us to visualize what the problem might be without one.

[womble]

You have to remember that LOS is drawn from eyeball to target. Which means it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the single guy in the original squad who could see the ATG was stood in the only place where it was possible to see the gun from, or the TacAI didn't put any of the FO team in the precise places where they could spot the gun (if there was a wall, say, that the rifle team was ranged along, the FO team might not have gotten a chance to peek over it because all the spots at the wall were taken by riflemen). Or the rifle squad was standing or kneeling (in order to fire, maybe) whereas the FO was in a lower posture because of a cover arc, or cowering because of incoming and lower motivation. Maybe the FO is lower experience than the rifle squad, or the squad member who can see the Gun is an outlier and just happens to be a better observer than the FO. Perhaps the rifle team had been there for a long time and had chance to accumulate spotting bonuses, whereas the FO popped up and gave up too quickly.

Maybe the FO was just unlucky or the rifle team lucky.

And the FO doesn't need to see the gun to call arty on its location. If the FO couldn't even draw a valid "support call" LOS to the place you wanted to bombard, then there was definitely some, probably postural, distinction between the elements involved, and something like a low wall, or crops.

[Rake]

...

And the FO doesn't need to see the gun to call arty on its location. If the FO couldn't even draw a valid "support call" LOS to the place you wanted to bombard, then there was definitely some, probably postural, distinction between the elements involved, and something like a low wall, or crops.

One thing I just recently noticed is that a spotter can place an arty call to places that won't show up in LOS. The downside seems to be that the accuracy suffers. I'm in the middle of a game against the AI where I've tried this extensively, but artillery landing where I've asked for it has been dicey at best

[fry30]

I believe this is a hold over from CMBN to simulate a spotter being able to see past, through, or over a hedgerow. Something like that. Its not too far that a forward observer can look out of his LOS, but it can be helpful and seems to me like something a good observer would be able to do anyways. I don't know, its been a long day at work and suddenly time seems to be going really slow and I'm super hungry.

[womble]

Yeah, all the titles from BN onward (and maybe even SF, I don't know) have given the ability of indirect fire to be dropped "just" out of sight of the spotter. "Just" being about 1 AS past the last bit of terrain they could actually fire their small arms at, or actually spot a unit in if that unit was stood up waving its arms/firing.

[Combatintman]

Yeah, all the titles from BN onward (and maybe even SF, I don't know) have given the ability of indirect fire to be dropped "just" out of sight of the spotter. "Just" being about 1 AS past the last bit of terrain they could actually fire their small arms at, or actually spot a unit in if that unit was stood up waving its arms/firing.

Pretty sure it is in CMSF - I have frequently been able to call in point target indirect fire missions onto areas that the 'Target' command tells me I can't see.

[Zenomorph]

Thanks for the replies. I suppose I needed to exercise a bit of patience and leave the spotter in place for a while. I'm wondering if anyone could explain the mechanic of dropping arty out of LOS. I can't see how the game allows that since u get that pink line segment whenever your cursor is pointing pointing at an out of LOS spot and clicking there simply causes your spotting line to disappear. Thanks!

[womble]

I'm wondering if anyone could explain the mechanic of dropping arty out of LOS. I can't see how the game allows that since u get that pink line segment whenever your cursor is pointing pointing at an out of LOS spot and clicking there simply causes your spotting line to disappear. Thanks!

When you're working with a unit that can target "just out of LOS" (which includes HQs and FOs, as well as mortars in "direct lay" mode), the Target tool will stay "valid" for the whole of the distance. Situations can arise with FOs and HQs and mortar teams with no bombs left, where the target tool will allow you to set a Target for direct shooting that is out of LOS (and therefore out of LOF), and the unit will not fire. They would be able to call arty on it, and if they were a mortar team with bombs, they would be dropping eggs there. The margin of "out of LOS" that is permitted is very narrow, though, especially when you consider the ability all units have to target the far side of permeable linear obstacles like hedges, so you might not notice that an apparently-valid (according to the Target tool) target location is actually unshootable.