No such thing as a stupid question.

[ShooterSix]

Hello,

I've played Red Thunder for a few hours now, and love destroying swaths of Soviet armor with AT guns. But I have a couple basic questions.

1. How do I prevent my ATGs and MBTs from firing on infantry, which wastes precious ammo and reveals there position to enemy armor? I want them to remain silent, and wait for enemy armor to approach. Instead they open fire on Soviet scouting teams 1000 meters away.

2. What does "spalling armor" mean? Sometimes this message appears when I hit a tank an AT round.

3. Can mortars destroy tanks? As the Germans I get lots of mortar support, which seems to do nothing to tanks.

[Mord]

Set an armor arc then they will only fire on tanks.

Spalling is when a round hits the tank, doesn't penetrate but causes the steel on the inside of the tank to break off and shrapnel outwards.

It takes a lucky shot for a mortar to take out a tank but it is possible. They are probably best used on open topped vehicles. It doesn't hurt to try on tanks though, in the least you may drive them off.

Mord.

[MikeyD]

1) one of the combat commands is 'armor cover arc' which should do the trick. But they don't die following your orders, if they're pressed hard enough they'll start firing on infantry.

2) Spalling is when you hit the armor plate so hart that pieces of metal break off the opposite side of the armor. Sometimes flakes, sometimes as big a pie plates.

3) I've seen a mortar round go through an open hatch, if that answers your question

[Oddball_E8]

1: Armor cover arc (it's in the combat commands. redish button bottom left)

2: it means that the armour on the inside has come loos in flakes and is flying around a bit inside the tank (kind of like shrapnel, but it's the tanks own armour becoming the shrapnel)

3: yes. Tanks generally have very weak armour on the top (so weak that airplanes with 12.7mm MG's can take out the tanks in many cases) so a direct hit will often take the tank out. Even with 81mm mortars (maby even 50mm depending on the tank)

[ShooterSix]

Thanks for the help guys. I misunderstood what that command meant.

[pnzrldr]

1. Use the "Target Armor Arc" command. If you hold down 'shift' it will make your arc a full circle, at any selected range.

2. The round struck the enemy vehicle and caused portions of the armor or other internal equipment to dislodge from the inside of the vehicle at lethal velocity and go flying around inside. Unpleasant if you are the crew. However, does not always cause casualties. Usual effect is some equipment damage and a morale/suppression decrement. Note that you have a tab in the UI to keep track of system damage to each part of the vehicle, which shows degrading colors by system.

3. Yes, but only with an extraordinarily lucky direct hit. I've seen it twice in CM, once by an 81mm US mortar (I was Germans - scratch one Mk IV) and once on a T-34 from a German 120mm during beta testing. Usually they have some suppressive effect, causing crews to button up, occasionally you get an immobilization or minor damage to a vehicle. Work much better against open-topped light armor like halftracks or Marders. Overall, they are mostly ineffective versus armor and much better employed with their limited ammo supply against vulnerable infantry targets - whom they will happily obliterate. But, if that is all you've got....

[Vanir Ausf B]

1) Target Armor Arc command. It works the same as Target Arc except the unit will only open fire on vehicles inside the arc.

2) Spall is small bits of armor -- sometimes microscopic in size -- that flake off armor plate when it is struck. It can injure vehicle crew members but will otherwise not harm the vehicle.

3) Depends on the mortar. 60mm or smaller will not do much. 81mm can do some damage if it hits the top of the hull, but will usually not destroy the tank. 120mm could probably destroy some tanks, depending on how thick their top armor is.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Holy ****. Ninja'd 5 times in 5 minutes.

[Mord]

There is a National Geographic tank documentary that has Sydney Alford conducting simulations of shell hits on armor. In one example he creates some spalling on a simulated turret, inside is a watermelon representing a human head. Suffice to say it gives you a very graphic idea of what it must be like on the receiving end of spalling. I can't find the episode with that scene. All I can find is this scene that shows the reactive armor portion of the doc.

Does anybody know the name of this doc?

Mord.

[Tux]

120mm could probably destroy some tanks, depending on how thick their top armor is.

I once noticed a massive double explosion underneath one of my 120mm mortar barrages. Later on I asked my opponent what it was: Turns out I took out his last Sherman with a direct hit.

I certainly would never bother trying to use mortars as an AT weapon though, except maybe as a very last resort.

[Oddball_E8]

Well, I just did a battle and my StuG III got destroyed by a direct impact from an 82mm mortar (or whatever the russian equivalent is).

2nd impact of the game from a pre-planned barrage. BLAM! and the StuG was gone.

Just like that.

One thing I noticed tho is that there are no penetration decals for artillery

Oh well, we can't have everything.

Moral of the story is that even the lowly 82mm mortars can knock a panzer out. You just have to be lucky enoug to hit it

[Michael Emrys]

Moral of the story is that even the lowly 82mm mortars can knock a panzer out. You just have to be lucky enoug to hit it

I once had a Sherman taken out by an 81mm hit. And just the other day, I took out a Pzkw. IV with a hit from a 76mm. It was the second shell of a barrage and made me so happy. I wasn't expecting to get a kill, just wanted to chase it out of its present position, but that won the game for me.

Michael

[Oddball_E8]

Yup.

A tank (any tank, really) can't risk staying in a sustained artillery barrage that is aimed directly at its position.

So either it moves (risking detection) or it stays (risking death)

[c3k]

The most likely result (and use) of mortars against tanks is to force them to button up and MAYBE get some systems damage. Another outcome is to enshroud them in smoke and dust, forcing them to move to gain LOS. That buttoned up, damaged, moving tank is less likely to spot your defense. (The mortars also strip away any enemy infantry which may help spot and suppress your defense.)

Ken