Ambush Command

[Chops]

No can do. Hide is a state which is incompatible with any other action. You can't BOTH hide AND shoot. It's one or the other. Doesn't matter if you're talking Target, Target Briefly, etc.

Having said that, I do wish we could implement a dedicated Ambush Command. This would have Hide as the default and an Arc as a trigger for opening fire, then be accepting of additional Commands. For example, Ambush + Hide means after there is no enemy in the Arc, go back to Hiding. Or Ambush + move back 50m means engaging the enemy until the Arc is clear and then relocate.

Obviously people can think up with hundreds of new Commands and Command combos. I mean on top of the hundreds you've already suggested over the years But at the end of the day we have to code, test, and support all of these. At the end of the day you guys need a reasonable cap on the amount of stuff to manage (even if you don't think you do). It's always a balancing act.

As 2.0 demonstrates, we are willing to expand the Command offerings (Target Briefly). We simply need to be very cautious.

Steve

Are there any plans to implement the Ambush Command in the near future, or will this have to wait for the CMx2 4.0 engine upgrade?

I know that this has been discussed many times and I am sure it is a significant amount of work, but it would really add to the gameplay and the ability to use real world tactics. This would be great for the human player as well as having it as an option in the Editor for setting the AI to Ambush. Maybe this could be tied to Triggers, or not.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

Hmm... i don´t know if an extra ambush button is needed. Maybe it would be a good idea to redesign the hide button, or even better, the coverarc button. For example:

If you press the hide button, the unit hides without scanning the horizon.

If the unit is not watching their surroundings like this, the unit also can not fire or ambush, because it can´t see the enemy because of the hiding.

Now there could be a redesigned combination of the hide-button together with a coverarc. If there is a cover arc, the leader of the unit could watch for example every 18 seconds for 2 seconds and check the coverarc area.

If an unit is seen inside this area, the group unhide an open fire till they can not see any more enemy units inside their coverarc or if they are themselfes dead or supressed.

If there is no enemy unit seen during this 2 seconds, than the leader again get into the hidemode, cover again for 18 seconds and repeat this behavior continiuously. Maybe there could also be a random intervall, for a more natural behavior. Hide 15-25 seconds than watch 2-3 seconds or something like this. And green units could watch more often, 10-20 seconds, because they are more nervous and impantience than veterans. Without coverarc, they would be no watching-cycle and so no change to get a LOS, and without LOS, there is no opening fire. And even if they get LOS, firering without a given coverarc could be forbidden, cause hiding could be more important than combat. Maybe even if there is some incoming fire, cause maybe you want to hide and save your units just because of this incoming fire to safe them, while a differend unit can engage the enemy. But thats not the question.

I think the problem here musst be the combination of two buttons, the hide and the coverarc order. Because it must be possible for the program to check if an enemy unit is inside or outside the coverarc, otherwise it would be impossible to use the coverarc button. It does exactly this, it checks if an enemy is inside the arc.

So the "if --> than" behavior, to open fire if there is an unit inside the arc must be possible. The query if an enemy unit is inside this coverarc could not only change the shooting behavior from ceasefire to fire, it also could change the hiding behavior from hiding to unhide. I don´t mind where here could be a problem.

The question, is the first behaviourchange also be possible?

If "hide" and "coverarc" than "Leader unhide and watch every X seconds"?

So, as far as I can see, the underlined "and" seems to be the problem in the engine?

If there is no problem, I don´t see, why there could be a problem to make a new hide-button, with ambush ability. I think there is no need for two buttons, an ambush and a hide button. If an ambush-button is engine-possible, than this could be a redesigned hide button without a problem, without the need of a new button.

[Reaper28]

I have never tried to set up a proper ambush but couldn't you set up a good ambush with to tools already provided?

Most people play WeGo anyway so couldn't you have an ambush set up to where as the units closest to where the enemy are coming hide. while ones further down the line have target arcs set. Then once the enemy comes into contact with those using the cover arc unhide those that are hidden at the end of the turn.

Like I said, I'm not a seasoned vet but that makes sense to me

[Vanir Ausf B]

That would actually work much better in real time than WEGO. In WEGO the enemy may run through the kill zone in 60 seconds.

[Battlefront.com]

There will never be a dedicated Ambush Command because there isn't a need for one. What there is a need for is some tweaking to behavior when existing Commands are used in combination. I don't have any ETA when that might be coming as it involves a lot of TacAI work.

Steve

[Reaper28]

That would actually work much better in real time than WEGO. In WEGO the enemy may run through the kill zone in 60 seconds.

I highly doubt that. Unless its an armored target infantry will instantly be pinned or retreat once it starts taking fire and either way it plays into your hand.

Like I said, I'm not a completely seasoned vet but for the most part any time my units have taken fire they eventually get pinned and or retreat.

This would make a good project maybe I will test different ambush tactics ect.

[Vanir Ausf B]

The problem with your setup is that it requires some of the ambushing units to be unhidden. That's fine if you are in terrain where you can be that way and still be hard to spot, such as behind bocage. But change the bocage to a hedge and it doesn't work since any kneeling soldiers will be spotted rather quickly. The hedge will also block LOS from any friendly units further back unless they are at a higher elevation.

[Childress]

There will never be a dedicated Ambush Command because there isn't a need for one. What there is a need for is some tweaking to behavior when existing Commands are used in combination. I don't have any ETA when that might be coming as it involves a lot of TacAI work.

You mean something along these lines?:

Hiding troops= maximum concealment.

Hiding troops + Cover Arc = Ambush. And slightly less concealment.

[Battlefront.com]

Yup, that's exactly it. Cover and concealment would be nearly as good as Hiding, but with significantly better situational awareness. Straight forward, logical, no new UI needed, etc. Just need to get the time to do it.

Steve

[Childress]

Thanks for the update- clean and simple. By the way you should hire that guy.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

That sounds wonderful Steve. Exactly what we needed.

[Erwin]

+1 great idea.

[poesel]

Good idea!

Ahm, while you are at CAs - could you make it so that hunt only reacts to contacts in the CA? That would REALLY help no to stop your hunting KT because he spotted a routing ammo bearer 2 klicks away.