Jump to content

Is mortar TOF explicitly modeled?


Recommended Posts

I recently finished reading reading the phenomenal book Penalty Strike, the story of a Russian company commander in a Penal Battalion. In it, he talks about using 82mm mortars to attack an objective and notes TOF as being almost exactly a minute. This made me wonder about how 81mm and up mortars are modeled in the game, seeing as how hang time, if you will, would therefore be around one turn, depending upon when firing actually begins. I suspect this would put a bit of a crimp in using mortars for near instant target engagement, if hang time isn't already explicitly modeled. My memory's fuzzy, but I do have vague recollections of the tail end of a shoot dribbling over into the next turn, but I'm not sure exactly what that represents.

Regards,

John Kettler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For on-map mortars, TOF is modeled quite explicitly -- you can watch the entire shell trajectory from muzzle to impact if you pull back the camera view.

For off-map mortars, I assume TOF is accounted for in the delay time. Note, for example, that even fire on TRPs takes a few minutes to call. I think it's safe to assume that part of this minimum response time is meant to represent the TOF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can easily pull up youtube videos of real mortars on the the firing range and judge for yourself. These are probably modest ranges and may not reflect the full flight time of a mortar round at maximum range. As you're probably aware of you can add multiple charges to a mortar round to extend it's range and therefore it's flight time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YD is correct.

Playing GeorgeMC's excellent faux-Eastern Front scenario on a very large map, I can assure you that my 81mm mortars are only getting roughly 4 or so rounds per turn landing at very long range with the ranging shots taking a turn each before it gets going.

And watching the flight of the rounds to see if they'll land anywhere near those verdammt 'russian' AT guns is a whole piece of fun in itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently finished reading reading the phenomenal book Penalty Strike, the story of a Russian company commander in a Penal Battalion. In it, he talks about using 82mm mortars to attack an objective and notes TOF as being almost exactly a minute. This made me wonder about how 81mm and up mortars are modeled in the game, seeing as how hang time, if you will, would therefore be around one turn, depending upon when firing actually begins. I suspect this would put a bit of a crimp in using mortars for near instant target engagement, if hang time isn't already explicitly modeled. My memory's fuzzy, but I do have vague recollections of the tail end of a shoot dribbling over into the next turn, but I'm not sure exactly what that represents.

Regards,

John Kettler

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but do you actually play this game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YankeeDog,

Fair point re incorporation of TOF in offboard mortar shoots.

Pak 40,

I've watched vids of modern British 51s in Afghanistan combat and the newish U.S. 60mm on the firing range. That bomb is up there for an appreciable time (could check duration, but saw the vids months ago), and the range is pretty short. I'm indeed aware that mortars start with Charge 0 and may go as high a Charge 5/Super Charge.

Baneman,

Given the reported hang time, I'm really surprised you're getting even one bomb back on the ground if your 81s are firing from max range. Working in your favor, though, is that max range also happens to come from firing at 45 degree elevation, the bottom end of a mortar's elevation limits. Therefore, you may be shooting what effectively amounts to depressed trajectory fire.

Apocal,

I do when I have the requisite neural circuits available. I have watched 60mm mortars fire on board since the CMBN Demo, but I'm not talking about a shoot from a few hundred meters. I'm talking about 82mm mortars firing from within the Penal Battalion's zone of attack and possibly at very steep trajectories. That I haven't seen, so deem my question reasonable.

Bergerbitz,

The company's generally great, but the delectable belly rubbing gals have yet to show. Sigh.

Luke FF,

You claim to ignore me, yet keep taking potshots at me. In any event, you need to keep up. My Canadian paras seized a bridge and held it. Have fought a bunch of battles since I first floundered about the training fields at Devon and am hoping to get to the point where I can fight live humans. I owe my CMBN teachers a crack at me, and live foes are so much more fun and interesting than the AI, which sorely lacks conversational skills.

Regards,

John Kettler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If minute-long flight times are modelled, I've not seen them. I base this assertion on the frequency of spotting rounds (1 per turn or more, including adjustment of the lay) and the time between the battery's "Roger: fire for effect. Out." and the arrival of the first salvo of a bombardment (less than a minute). I haven't routinely used any mortars bigger than 81mm, but I'm fairly sure of my recollections for arty up to 155mm, and I don't remember being surprised by a long flight time delay for even naval bombardments, though those were mostly experiments aimed at TRPs, or preplanned so I might not have actually witnessed the spotting process that I'm basing my statement on for those big bad boys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apocal,

I do when I have the requisite neural circuits available. I have watched 60mm mortars fire on board since the CMBN Demo, but I'm not talking about a shoot from a few hundred meters. I'm talking about 82mm mortars firing from within the Penal Battalion's zone of attack and possibly at very steep trajectories. That I haven't seen, so deem my question reasonable.

You can actually see (with on-map mortars at least) the rounds fired from longer ranges go much higher than those fired at short ranges and hang in the air for greater lengths of time. Its very obvious, especially when you're on the receiving end. Hitting a moving unit depends on luck more than anything, although multiple mortars impacting in succession helps on occasion as nearby impacts sometimes add up to a cower state that slows the unit down. Other than that though, not really useful in most circumstances, especially since mortars have limited ammo.

But if they aren't already moving and the fire for effect (not spotting round) is inbound, I generally don't recommend trying to "dance" your way out of a mortar barrage because the impact area + bursting radius is greater than your men can typically cover on FAST orders... but at extreme ranges when its large caliber mortars that are going to wipe the troops out anyway might as well give it a shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm talking about 82mm mortars firing from within the Penal Battalion's zone of attack and possibly at very steep trajectories. That I haven't seen, so deem my question reasonable.

Here's an original thought: set up your own scenario and test it yourself, instead of making these long-winded posts and asking someone else to do it for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...