Halftrack Gunners and patch

[Wodin]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this..a huge well done to BF for addressing this issue in this patch..top marks!!

Now has anyone noticed a difference? The scenario I'm playing at the min has no halftracks in it.

[Rokko]

Actually no, halftrack gunners are still insta-killed once a single enemy rifle opens fire. And the new stance isn't really a new stance, the gunner is just sunken into the vehicle

[Fizou]

I was happy to see that this has been tweeked in the patch. Not had time to check it out yet.

[Hister]

Actually no, halftrack gunners are still insta-killed once a single enemy rifle opens fire. And the new stance isn't really a new stance, the gunner is just sunken into the vehicle

Can't agree with you Rokko - I was playing with lots of halftracks now and gunners are much harder to be hit!

[warrenpeace]

I think Hister is correct. In my half track gunnery range the gunners are lasting much longer especially at longer ranges. I set up a gunnery range where US half track with 50 cal machine gun is at one end and a MG42 team is at the other. I then hunt the half track and let them engage until either the gunner is killed or the team is wiped out. Pre-patch the half track would win very rarely (<10%). I just did a test post patch and the half track won 4/7 times. Gunners are definitely surviving longer

[Rokko]

Normal infantry will open fire on exposed HT gunners once they come closer than 400m, marksmen and MGs will fire earlier. I have yet to see one halftrack that gets within 400m of an enemy squad and does not lose its gunner within one turn. Never happened to me.

It is just strange that regular infantry become super accurate when firing on a dude behind a metal shield 400m away of whom they can only see the top of the helmet and a little bit of face through a tiny slit, while normally they often can't hit the broad side of a barn (quite literally for that range actually).

[Battlefront.com]

The difference in the stance matters because the game traces intersections with the polygons. IIRC the head is now something like 60% lower than it was before. Warrenpeace's quick test seems to back this up, as did internal testing.

The basic arguments I made in earlier threads still apply. It is realistic, not unrealistic, to lose gunners who are in halftracks that are close (less than 500m) to unsuppressed enemy. Especially when the HTs are stationary.

Anybody who has shot a rifle at any significant range knows that in real life the HT and the gunshield increase accuracy. Why? Because without the HT and the gunshield the rifleman probably doesn't know where a single enemy soldier is. Each shot is, therefore, fired "wild". And without a specific something to aim for subsequent shots are less likely to strike in the same area even if the rifleman is trying to.

The riflemen are NOT aiming for the head of the HT gunner at those ranges. Nor are they aiming for any other part of the HT. They are instead aiming for the shield because they know that's where the MG is and therefore the gunner. Fire enough rounds and you'll score a hit, pretty much guaranteed. Which is why it's so important to suppress the enemy and to keep the HT moving if you want to keep your gunners alive.

Steve

[GJR144]

Steve, in combat the pulse is very high.

Have you ever shot at a target with the size of one apple over more than 100 meters with a pulse beyond 120?

Every bet you will not hit. And once the apple begins to shoot back with automatic fire, I double my bet that you will become unable to hit at all.

Every infantry and his rifle seems to become a sharpshooter as soon as they are aiming at german HTs.

[Battlefront.com]

You are obviously missing the point. The rifleman is not aiming at an apple... he is aiming at the apple tree hoping to hit an apple. Give him enough shots and eventually he will, simply by luck.

It's all about volume of fire. One man shooting at a HT from 500m without a scope should have a very low chance of hitting. 2 dozen soldiers, some armed with LMGs, changes the dynamic quite a bit. That should be reflected in the game.

Suppression is also reflected in the game. Just because an HT's MG can suppress a target doesn't mean that he is.

Anecdotal and theoretical posts aren't impressive. We have just changed the cover values for the gunners and it has made improvements. If someone wants to make a case that more needs to be done, do it with methodical testing and not posts based on nothing but personal opinion. We never have, and never will, base game changes on whim.

Steve

[Hister]

For what it's worth (no data to back up so it's pretty worthless but might put game devs more at ease):

To me current in-game balance is a perfect harmony of how I would expect things to be with HT gunners in real life.

Amen.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I set up a gunnery range where US half track with 50 cal machine gun is at one end and a MG42 team is at the other. I then hunt the half track and let them engage until either the gunner is killed or the team is wiped out. Pre-patch the half track would win very rarely (<10%). I just did a test post patch and the half track won 4/7 times. Gunners are definitely surviving longer

So this change is for US halftracks also? The patch change log only mentions German halftracks.

[warrenpeace]

Based on my test, it appears so.

[Peter Panzer]

Since folks have already hashed out the key, big picture point about this change, I’ll add this tiny footnote:

It looks like shifting the position of the gunner model induced a hiccup in the idle animation. Watch carefully and you’ll see the model’s head, at least for the German representation, quickly snap forward when the animation cycle loops.

Glad to hear the overall, in-game effect is as intended though.

[SpeakEasy]

I just unloaded on a german halftrack with a squad of elite and crack American glider infantry from 250m out. The halftrack gunner was not killed and was also able to return fire while the halftrack backed into a forest and out of LoS of my men. I was impressed with the survival of the gunner.

I'm very happy that these gunners are not as vulnerable with the patch.