Markus86 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I found an interesting article about panther turrets. You can find it here: http://www.ospreypublishing.com/articles/world_war_2/German_use_of_tank_turrents/ The other significant difference was that the turret roof was constructed using a 40 mm plate (as opposed to 16 mm). This was because the emplaced turrets were more vulnerable to artillery fire. German tests showed that the additional armour meant that the turret could withstand a hit from a 150 mm artillery shell. The turrets are almost invisible till they fire and, when located, there is very little to shoot at and unless the turret happens to be pointing elsewhere it will not be penetrated either by the 75 mm or 6-pdr guns. Indeed it was, the Panther turrets inflicted on the Eighth Army its heaviest tank losses of the Italian campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempestzzzz Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Fascinating. I know I saw picture of them in the US Army 'Green Books' years ago. Didn't think much of them. How wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer58 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I guess if they were placed in or near hay bales or other cover, and with a tarpaulin at the front ( to stop the upkick of dirt from the blast ) they would be practically impossible to see. There's no crew to pick out or pick off, and I guess they would have a very low profile compared to any piece of at or tracked artillery. Think of a dozen of these things as a portable, quickly deployable, localized to where the enemy is heading, Maginot Line Lite type defense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropey Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Note that there were two types of turret - the modified turrets with extra armour as mentioned above, but also recycled turrets without any mods. The Liri Valley turrets were of the latter type, though of two sub-types. These had the complex commanders hatch (as on the Ausf G?) or the simpler cylindrical one (as on the Ausf D?). [someone might correct me on the version names.] The Allies knew something was being built from aerial shots, but it was by experience only that these constructions were discovered to be Pantherturms. The low silhouette occasionally worked against the defenders, as growing brush/crops also decreased their visibility of the ground around them, but they did cause severe casualties to attacking forces. "Quickly deployable" is of course relative. It's not like you rushed a truck up and dropped them in front of an advancing enemy! It took some time to survey, dig, install and prepare for battle. Long enough that many were captured in the Gothic Line before they could be readied for action, and that with plenty of fore-knowledge of the Allied advance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 ropey, Did you say Panther turret? How about an inspection pic? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-587-2267-22,_Italien,_befestigte_Stellung,_Inspektion.jpg?uselang=it Same event, but looking the other way. Note impressive field of fire. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-587-2267-20,_Italien,_befestigte_Stellung,_Inspektion.jpg?uselang=it A different turret, supported by entrenchments, protective spoil and loads of camouflage netting! http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-316-1161-39,_Italien,_befestigte_Stellung,_getarntes_Geschütz.jpg?uselang=it Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Both types are in the game y'know. But you've got to go deep into 1944 'til they show up in the TO&E. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensal Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 All I can say is that the guys who manned these things must have had balls of steel. The feeling of being in such a cramped space half underground and unable to move with the enemy all around you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Beeing assigned to crew such a thing must have felt equal to a getting a death sentence...and i am sure that is pretty much what it was. Hell, you cant even run away! It s like a surfaced land-submarine that cant move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think it might have been better. Nice accommodation and easier to exit... You know you would not get Hull hit and the turret is pretty good at bouncing rounds. You bug out when the infantry bug out.... Just my 2p 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Going through tbe whole war in your shirt sleeves with artillery going off all the time was rather more dangerous. But then world wars tend not to be lots of fun and safe laughs for the whole family, any way you slice it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Beeing assigned to crew such a thing must have felt equal to a getting a death sentence...and i am sure that is pretty much what it was. Hell, you cant even run away! It s like a surfaced land-submarine that cant move. I don't know. I'm sure they're the envy of my unarmored AT crews, who invariably die while reloading for their second shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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