INF vs TANKS

[Vanir Ausf B]

GETTING HYPED ABOUT THIS AGAIN ARE WE.

ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH, DEAR FRIENDS, ONCE MORE.

OR CLOSE THE WALL UP WITH OUR PIXELTRUPPEN DEAD!

[Vanir Ausf B]

This has probably been asked...are different buildings with different material and construction techniques that provide different levels of protection and resistance to small arms, motrars, artillery and dheavy/medium/light direct fire weapons?

Very much so, despite the nonsense MikeyD posted earlier.

[db_zero]

Very much so, despite the nonsense MikeyD posted earlier.

any quick way to tell? I haven't seen anything yet or is it something you discover by playing with the editor?

[Vanir Ausf B]

any quick way to tell?

Not really. The best anyone has come up with is a general guide:

The best guide is simply larger is tougher than smaller, modulars seem to be tougher than independent buildings (given same size), and independents have a broad hierarchy of strength, with the caveat that size still matters to some degree:

Churches > houses >/= commercial > barns (I believe houses are generally stronger than commercials, but that might be worth testing further).

Also note there are likely some bugs lurking in the independents. If you note a solid, undamaged wall porous to small arms fires, or allowing units to observe / be observed, you might have found one. (Any help identifying these with repeatable tests would be most appreciated).

[para]

What is wrong about letting soldiers fire rockets from buildings? They could and they did. And they still do in urban fighting today.

All of those ideas listed are good ones, but as Zebulon mentioned, most of them involve significant changes to TacAI. Corner peeking would require new animation. The last two items have been essentially ruled out by BFC. By comparison, the engine already allows rocket firing from buildings (e.g. PIAT). It's just a matter of allowing it for the specific weapons.

I agree with you Vanir Ausf B. Allowing all hand held AT weapons to fire from structures is the way to go, as a quick( i have no concept of coding though ) fix. I cannot understand why some people are so dead set against it either.

[Seedorf81]

It's not only in urban surroundings that AT-teams do not always function properly.

Very recently I played the "Johannahoeve" scenario. I put up one of the best placed smokescreens in (my game playing) history, and a British Para AT team with satchels came up precisely behind a stationary German Stug. No more than 12 feet away from it, facing the vulnerable rear. And what did they do with their satchel charges?

Nothing at all!! They dilly-dallied around on their tummies like blind A-holes until the (obviously psychic) Stug crew had turned their vehicle around and blew them to smithereens.

Similar experiences with Shrek teams placed on a street perpendicular to a road. Sherman tank crawls along, Shrekteam should have an easy-peasy kill, but rotates like crazy and finally gets killed.

I do hope that in Market Garden those AT teams don't do that no more..

[Fūrinkazan]

Don't want to star a whole discussion here as there is another thread for this, but the point of the discussion there isn't that infantry cannot use rocket launchers from buildings (which i think they should since the game abstracts things like moving out of cover to fire the rocket and then back in) but the fact that infantry will not use grenades and demo charges from buildings.

The only things they will use against vehicles from buildings are rifle grenades and piats.

Yes, that was what this thread is about, at the beginning. I would just like to point a few things about urban combat, that's all. And some people on this thread want the use of rocket launcher inside building to be allowed, so...

I'm not sure that, with the actual system, throwing things at tanks would be a good idea.

I had to face an opened top vehicle, a little m8 howitzer carriage that was immobilized at only 2 m of a building. I had 2 men on the second floor and they started throwing grenades. A lot of explosions and a few seconds later, the vehicle turned its turret an kill my guys. Well, bad luck, so i send the rest of the squad, more men, more grenades and same result. i had lost about 10 men and no crew member was hit. Imagine the result with a tank that is less vulnerable. If there is no concussion, stunning effect, for the crew, your team will be blown in seconds.

All i'm saying is that shooting from inside or outside building is maybe not the problem.

I'm not against allowing AT rockets to be fire from inside buildings as long as it is historical. I have no proof that it is. On the contrary, from what i have been reading in the Osprey books, it was not permitted for bazooka and panzerschreck. If someone as solid proof that it's false no problem for me.

Seedorf81 pointed something interresting. AT teams have problems to spot and turn in the right direction and this gives bad results.

When soldier crawl to face a new direction, they loose contact with the target even if it's a tank at 10 m. I have sent teams with demo charges to kill an immobilized tank and notice that, even on a flat street they may loose contact with the tank.

Today, i played a QB against the AI.

I destroyed 4 tanks and some infantry with only 5 losses.

I lost 2 men that were hiding in a corner of a building.

A buttoned up tank came, spotted them first and killed them.

How can they be spotted while they were only at 5m of the tank. Also, the tank was moving, and they did not react.

My point is that AT team should be faster to spot and shoot than the tank.

From what i've been reading, i think we all agree that the main point is that tanks are too powerfull in cities. It was the case i think also in CMSF.

If you take a look at videos made by Syrians insurgent you will see all the problems that tanks face in urban areas.

I think it could be possible to tweak the spoting for tanks and infantry without changing too much things. Reducing the field of view of tanks on the sides or rear at close range would also help a lot. Making the infantry react faster than tanks and making explosions (grenades, demo charges) more effective on the crew is also possible. This would not need new features and would give back advantage to infantry.

My guess is that BFC will certainly not make huge changes on the game. But they may tweak things, like they did with hmgs or the super tank crews, to limit the problems.

[Oddball_E8]

Yes' date=' that was what this thread is about, at the beginning. I would just like to point a few things about urban combat, that's all. And some people on this thread want the use of rocket launcher inside building to be allowed, so...[/quote']

That post was from the Market Garden thread. It got moved here. And this is the thread I was referring to.