Any use for the CM:Shock Force "Spy" code in a WWII game?

[Sequoia]

In the Italian combat thread, before it turned into a math debate, I posted I would rather see Italian Partisans than post-surrender Italian Facist as it would be something new in a CMX2 WWII game and it could make use of code from Shock Force. Now I'm not really expecting Italian Partisans in CMFI, but we will likely see Partisans when we move to the Ost Front. Upon further reflection, however, I realized the Shock Force spy code really couldn't be used realistically in a WWII game. As far as regular Partisans would go, I don't think the Irregulars in Shock Force were harder to spot than regular Syrian Army troops were. So unless I'm overlooking something, in actuality there really isn't anything from the Shock Force code that could be used for Partisan warfare in WWII. Thoughts?

[76mm]

at the tactical level, I don't think partisans should be any harder to spot than any other troops, it is not as if they were invisible or super-camouflaged.

To the extent that partisans were harder to find, I think it was because they operated in smaller units and in forests and similar terrain with good concealment.

[MikeyD]

There was some debate on spies in the game. In 2007 Syria (CMSF) a 'spy' could whip out his celphone to relay intel to the combat units. In 1944 France or Italy how would a spy behind the lines transmit his intel to the front line troops? Carrier pigeon?

But a 'spy' is a different creature than a 'partisan'. I'd love to see Free French, Italian communits, or any number of other guerilla units fighting German garrisons behind the lines. Maybe if the Gods are kind they'll be included in the final game packs where 'anything goes'.

[Michael Emrys]

There was some debate on spies in the game. In 2007 Syria (CMSF) a 'spy' could whip out his celphone to relay intel to the combat units. In 1944 France or Italy how would a spy behind the lines transmit his intel to the front line troops? Carrier pigeon?

As far as France goes, there really wasn't a whole lot of partisan activity until D-Day. They were mostly involved with gathering men and organizing them. Then, right before D-Day, three man Jedburgh teams began to parachute in, and one member of the team was always a radioman with a radio. And as far as intel went, there were a lot of SOE agents with radios who had infiltrated into the country from about 1941 on.

I don't know much about the situation in Italy, but in Yugoslavia from 1943 on, there were SOE teams with radios in touch with Middle East Command.

As far as the USSR goes, I don't know very much, but the initial partisan bands were small groups of soldiers who had gotten cut off and found themselves behind enemy lines during Barbarossa and were creating whatever mischief they could. When the high command became aware of this, they made contact with the bands and began to drop supplies, including radios, to them. They would also parachute or fly in military and political leaders to conscript men from the German-captured territories and train them for partisan warfare. As the front became more open and fluid, it was possible to infiltrate entire cavalry corps to cooperate with the partisans behind enemy lines.

Michael

[Gpig]

For the upcoming Bridge Too Far module, It would be great if the British Player on the Arhnem bridge head could use the Dutch underground and their "spies" telephone network to relay intel on German troop movements.

Only if the player decided he could trust the Dutch underground, that is. (Which apparently the Brits did not, in real life.) ;-)

[Vark]

Partisans have the reputation of being hard to see because often their local knowledge allows them to extract the maximum concealment from terrain. The US Army, IIRC, had to change the standard NATO training target, for troops about to be deployed to Afghanistan, to something far smaller as the Taliban (the local ones, not the Pakistani imports) would lie down, behind micro folds, and reveal a far smaller target.

It's also why Cretans armed with muskets and WWI vintage weapons slaughtered a company of FJ's, who were dropped away from their DZ. Perhaps this local ground knowledge could be represented by higher combat factors?

[akd]

Such information would seldom, if ever, be fed realtime to units at the tactical level. The proper place for it is already in the game: scenario briefings and % intel.

[MikeyD]

Free French would be of little utility pre-D-Day. The German doctrine of 100-to-1 mass reprisals for casualties rather dampened partisan enthusiasm in France. Remember the scene with the civilians being gunned down by the locomotive at the end of "The Train". But still there's sufficient material for a few "Is Paris Burning?"-style pre-liberation uprising scenarios. Small unit skirmishes between civilian partisans and garrison units in the streets of Paris could make for a bit of fun. Imagine a partisan in a white short-sleeve shirt and slacks with a French army helmet and airdropped Sten gun. For CMBN of course. For Italy it would be the Resistenza italiana

[JonS]

Such information would seldom, if ever, be fed realtime to units at the tactical level. The proper place for it is already in the game: scenario briefings and % intel.

This. This. A thousand times this.

[JonS]

But still there's sufficient material for a few "Is Paris Burning?"-style pre-liberation uprising scenarios. Small unit skirmishes between civilian partisans and garrison units in the streets of Paris could make for a bit of fun.

Oh, there's plenty of material, from the massive uprising in the central highlands, to the various actions in Brittany, to the running fights to delay 2 SS Pz Div, to the siege actions around some of the Biscay ports.

[Erwin]

Since we had partisans in CM1, hopefully we'll see em in CM-OST.

[Buzz]

Free French would be of little utility pre-D-Day. The German doctrine of 100-to-1 mass reprisals for casualties rather dampened partisan enthusiasm in France. ....For CMBN of course. For Italy it would be the Resistenza italiana

Would dampen partisan enthusiasm in most settings.

Stylish Resistenza italiana stikes a pose with the red bandana

You know you can't just be good you have to look good too.