winkelried Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 When this topic comes up and some of the community heavyweights get in on it, it's always... POPCORN TIME! Don't forget the beer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 They were losers because they utterly sucked at logistics, intelligence, naval warfare, aerial warfare, and strategic planning. They were terrible at coalition warfare too. especially since they were beaten in sub-marine warfare (and other stuff) by some obscure British homosexual mathematician history is sometimes pure sarcasm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Don't know what you are talking about. The inside traverse worked in the recent tests i made - just did them with the Pak 40 (where the angle is +/- 28 degrees by the way). worked well and fast. maybe you can check yourself and give some feedback on this? I had re-tested right before posting. I didn't see any gun rotation or aiming that was not the slow one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I had re-tested right before posting. I didn't see any gun rotation or aiming that was not the slow one. bizarr - tested it myself and it works. testing on flat grass. which guns did you test? i did just the PaK 40 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 It's on my list. But so is the more recently written Closing With the Enemy: How GIs Fought the War in Europe, 1944-1945 by Michael D. Doubler But you can't measure humidity with a ruler. I don't find Doubler's book useful in judging fighting power and combat effectiveness. Creveld does that like an engineer, a scientist. Doubler's book is a ideological book. Creveld's book is politically neutral and objective. It's scientific in it's content (although it is not hard to read, quite the contrary). What should also be noted: Creveld as a jew, who suffered losses in his family during the war, is definately not keen on gloryfying the Wehrmacht. I don't want to spoil details, because if you are interested in this topic, this book will be quite a unique and exciting reading experience. There are not many books that give us something for our whole life and can be read again and again and every time you learn and understand more. This is one of these very rare outstanding books about WWII. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 On of the best sources on combat effectivness is Col. T. N. Dupuy's research. He states that relative combat effectivness is pretty much constant since the napoleonic wars. Maybe somebody has access to his work - mine is buried somewhere in a heap 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 especially since they were beaten in sub-marine warfare (and other stuff) by some obscure British homosexual mathematician history is sometimes pure sarcasm. What i find sarcasm are people living with thousands of TV stations and do not know, in which countries propaganda for homosexuality was allowed at that time and where people propagating homosexuality were not put in jail. Do not confuse the border of the dinner plate with the horizon... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 What i find sarcasm are people living with thousands of TV stations and do not know, in which countries propaganda for homosexuality was allowed at that time and where people propagating homosexuality were not put in jail. Do not confuse the border of the dinner plate with the horizon... What??? :confused: The problem the Third Reich had and their apologists still have is they believed their own propaganda and apparently still do. Beating France had as much to do with France's issues as much as any capability on the German side. I wouldn't flaunt the victory over Poland so much. Stabbed in the back by the USSR and abandoned by the West, Poland's fight against overwhelming odds WAS heroic. The German fight against the odds was merely self inflicted stupidity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 But a look at production figures and resources also helps to get rid of your absurd, hollywoodlike propaganda views (poesel71, since you are a propaganda expert, have you noticed in the meanwhile, why the Euro is a misconception and will not survive?). OMG - you are in that camp, too? Hey, just think of the Euro as if it was the Reichsmark and we had won the war. Given the recent news, that's what out neighbours think, too. About "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" - I can highly recommend it! I could only watch the first part but have taped the others. If I find an only source I will post it here (German probably mandatory). @Redwolf & Winkelried I have a PBEM where I could observe the slow 'outer' traverse and the fast 'inner' traverse of a Pak36®. The barrel was roughly in the middle of the carriage and turned slowly to the right. When the target came into the range of the inner traverse the barrel moved much faster to the maximum right position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Best soldier? Gurkhas. Hands down, every time. Becoming a Gurkha has been pretty much the pinnacle of achievement for a Nepalese youngster since the inception of the Regiment. They're tough as nails, fearless, fierce and fit, and they pretty much don't do anything else except become better soldiers until their term is up. All the soft Western nations had troops that could compete platoon-for-platoon with the best of the German armed forces, but the Germans didn't have any formations of men as feared as the Gurkhas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Gurkhas. I recall a quip by a British officer in Port San Carlos - they had to be very careful with the Gurkhas, because the battalion was basically a one-shot weapon: carefully line them up, press the GO! button, then send a ship around to the other side of the island to pick them up once they'd finished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 OMG - you are in that camp, too? Volltreffer! I knew it, mr. propaganda expert, that you will not recognize the false Euro-propaganda happening TODAY... But if you at least would learn history, you would know that all monetary unions had failed. Hey, just think of the Euro as if it was the Reichsmark and we had won the war. I also knew this from you before you even admitted it: Imagine the world how you want it, then it will become true! Like Trofim Lyssenko, Stalin's preferred biologist and the idol of the politically "correct" terrorists these days ignoring the differences of human races, stated: Human DNA are only useless artefacts! Then later in the 1970s, when Richard Lewontin resurrected the absurd egalitarist marxist dogma. Or like Robert Menasse, the left-extremist Austrian author stated with joy after his first visit in Brussel: "The EU is a crypto-marxist entity destroying the nation states. Great!" Ofcourse since then, he calls himself in true Orwellian speak a "Pro-European". Destroying the european nations they call "proeuropean"... You see, your sick Euro-experiment has a solid and rational ideology as basement. Therefore it's only a matter of time, until things, being not equal, will become equal! The great EUSSR-globalists, that cannot govern one single country well, will definately succeed in governing a whole continent. They think they have learned from the Soviet Union and will make things better this time. But they understand nothing, because they ignore the reality of human nature and the natural differences between nations and cultures. The southern countries would need a weaker currency, while the germanic countries would need a stronger currency. In the south the economy is destroyed by a too strong euro, while in the strong countries bubbles are forming (e.g. housing; in german cities the debt ratio in financing is already above 85%; probably not one of your thousand TV-stations has ever informed you about; but maybe the time on air is only too precious for such unimportant information with all the highly educational programs...). These Marxist madmans even believe, they could make the Spaniards equal with the Finns, because they can imagine it, and it would be only a matter of a few laws from these stupid bureaucrats until that will happen. Since they can make negroes to Germans/French/Italians by giving them a paper printed by the state, why shouldn't they be able to make Europeans more equal? You obviously are not an investor, aren't you? Economic realities do not follow the marxist visions. Invest accordingly! Or to put it differently: Treating things equal that are not equal, like the economic productivity of european nations, does not result in equality but in failure. The reason why all monetary unions have failed. I can highly recommend it! Like the Euro and the EUSSR... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 There we have it. The turn rate of the PAK is directly tied to a monetary union policy tied to a flawed DNA theory propounded by the EUSSR-globalists to... wait a minute, wtf were we talking about? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ofcourse one sentence provocations are well tolerated as long as they are against the Germans, but as soon as extremely stupid mainstream propaganda is discussed in a factual and well founded manner, the usual provocateurs appear and begin whining that the discussion went OT... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Steiner, we may live in the same country but not in the same universe. That is all I have to say to this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ofcourse one sentence provocations are well tolerated as long as they are against the Germans, but as soon as extremely stupid mainstream propaganda is discussed in a factual and well founded manner, the usual provocateurs appear and begin whining that the discussion went OT... Since they can make negroes to Germans/French/Italians by giving them a paper printed by the state, why shouldn't they be able to make Europeans more equal? factual and well founded? Nah I'd say it was more of the same discredited, abhorrent, reviled and bigoted world view that has already gotten you warned. For your own sake, it's probably better we got back to the original scope of the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 i think you are talking about war crimes too? there indeed they were (almost) unreached. Oh I'm sure Steiner's familiar with how courageous and honorable many of the SS and Wehrmacht were, especially Dirlewanger and camp guards types. Judging by past statements he probably gets aroused watching holocaust footage. Whats sad is that I've encountered less actual German Nazi's in my lifetime than any other nationality. I have a strong affinity for Germany, I was born there after all, and lived there until I was 6. That being said the Germans I met were living in the same world I was, not in a Nazi fantasy land. By the way Steiner, if the German soldier was such a tough, badass guy, and the Allies sucked, how come I was born 2 months shy of exactly 40 years after the end of WW2 - in Germany. I'm an American. In fact I was there because my father, a US AIR FORCE OFFICER was stationed, on a US AIR FORCE BASE, in Germany. 40 years later. The Nazis lost, and lost bad. And why wouldn't a Spaniard be the equal of a Finn? Nevermind the state of their nations now which are dependent on other factors besides the population as well - are you saying that you genuinely believe that someone being born in Finland is inherently better than someone born in Spain? What does that mean for you and your countrymen then, because about 20 million young men from the US (including blacks, indians, asians, spanish, irish,italians,etc....), UK, NZ, Australia, Russia, Mongolia, Ukraine, Poland, France, ETC came and pretty well 'insinuated' themselves into the German gene-pool with fraternization of the German Frauleins - forced or willing. Speaking of Finns, womble, if a Finn with a toothpick and a Gurkha fought... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 ... but as soon as extremely stupid mainstream propaganda is discussed in a factual and well founded manner ... just as you came up with the 100% first hit probability for the 88 ??? as soon as it gets factual - with citations and so you don't respond and rapidly make statements on another topic - equally well founded ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saferight Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 all this arguing is getting very nasty gentlemen, an because of a topic basically about whether a big metal tube on wheels turns fast enough in a game.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 And why wouldn't a Spaniard be the equal of a Finn? Ah, the Finns. Outdoorsy types used to rasslin' polar bears and running down reindeer bare-ass-nekkid north of the Arctic Circle during the Long Dark... Now, they'd tear the arms off an effete Castillian, no matter how tough he thought he was swaggering in the sun-drenched streets of the south, but perhaps a Pyrenean goat herd, used to the vicissitudes of mountain life, steeped in the blood of vendetta and butchering your own Chorizo could survive the Nordic onslaught for a while. Speaking of Finns, womble, if a Finn with a toothpick and a Gurkha fought... The Gurkha would whittle a prayer stick out of that toothpick with his Kukri... Unless the Finn was defending his homeland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Okay, now... The Gurkha and French points were popcorn-worthy, but otherwise, this thread went icky-weirdo. How about lets ding the bell and come back with combat-performance based arguments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 On the French point... All other aspects of the French forces being as they were, if the French high command had been younger and more agile in their thinking and had massed their armor rather than divvy it out piecemeal, how might the BOF gone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 On the French point... All other aspects of the French forces being as they were, if the French high command had been younger and more agile in their thinking and had massed their armor rather than divvy it out piecemeal, how might the BOF gone? too many if's - the french military establishment was so deeply marked by what had happened in WW1 (France lost 10% of its active male population in these four years) that it is extremely improbable that these if's would ever happened ... in addition the French defense industry was far from being effective in delivering the necessary weapons. btw i am always impressed how many names are listed for 1914-18 on the monument in the small village I spend my time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yes, probably too many ifs. Now, if Battlefront would just give us a BOF module so we could do some testing... My grandfather fought in WWI. After immigrating to the United States from the Ukraine a handful of years before the war, he volunteered and went over to fight as a doughboy in the AEF. Got a purple heart and medals for some of the big battles the US fought in. I wish I had known him. He spoke five languages and was evidently quite a mensch. Alas, he died before I was born. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 WTF happened to the gun turn rate part of the thread? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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