Hide command and when they attack...

[Vanir Ausf B]

I agree on womble.

I wonder how he feels about that.

[Badger73]

The game classifies a Scout Car as 'armor'? That's news...

The "After Action Report" displayed when a game ends distinguishes TANKS, ARMORED VEHICLES, and OTHER VEHICLES. So, it seems "yes" for game purposes that 'armor' includes Scout Cars, Half Tracks, Self Propelled Artillery, and everything else tracked with some attempt at protective shielding mounting a weapon greater than 12mm. Jeeps, trucks, and utility cars appear to be classified as unarmored "OTHER".

[womble]

I wonder how he feels about that.

[shudders]

[goes and takes a bath]

[Quintus Sertorius]

Does the time delay command work with hide? It strikes me that that would be effective, but I don't recall ever having tried it. In other words, pause 15 seconds then unhide.

[Vinnart]

In most situations, when you are setting up an ambush, as long as there is good cover in your setup area it's better to just give units a Cover Arc and not hide them.

The "Hide" order in CM seems to represent a "go fully prone and try to remain unspotted at all costs" SOP, so units on Hide are very well concealed, but also have very poor spotting ability. Think of soldiers fully prone, becoming intimately familiar with the dirt under their noses. Every once in a while, a member of the team will look up briefly, but this only provides the barest minimum of situational awareness.

In comparison, units without a Hide order maintain good situational awareness; as long as they have good cover/concealment and are not shooting or moving, they're still pretty hard to spot (especially small units like infantry AT teams). So a Hide order is usually unnecessary to a good ambush setup.

Personally, I mostly use the Hide order to tell infantry units to go prone and stay prone when I think there's about to be incoming artillery/mortar fire -- Hiding will usually considerably reduce casualties from this type of incoming fire.

I would say what Yankee said is spot on.

DO NOT use Hide for ambush. Use Hide for:

Incoming arty

Evading the enemy when contact is not desired at all. STOP associating HIDE with ambush in your mind. The very word means to avoid detection.

The thing to remember is HIDE is a passive behavior, and that it reduces spotting ability while maximizing concealment (i.e. hugging the ground keeping head down.)

Use cover arc for:

Getting a turret to point direction for tanks.

Setting an AMBUSH zone. The important thing is good concealment terrain to ambush. If you want your ambush to be more like “hide” with better concealment give a SLOW order one action square away so the troops stay prone, and give cover arc. If you want the troops to go prone without moving to another action square give a slow order in the same action square occupied. NEVER give HIDE in association with ambush.

For RECON use a tiny cover arc without hide. Terrain concealment is a must along with a sneaky approach into position. Use slow, or hunt and one can sneak right up on enemy with good spotting.

I know it make take awhile for all this to click in the mindset, at least it did for me, but there is no need for an additional ambush command. The behavior would be no different as using cover arc as it works now.

[agusto]

When you play RT hide is very effective for ambushes though. Have some distant unhid spotters with LOS on the killzone and the ambushing troops on hide with short covered arcs. Open fire as desired. The problem with setting up ambushes in combination with the HIDE command IMO only exists in WeGo gameplay. Off course one can set up highly effective ambushes in WeGo too, but when i lay out an ambush in WeGo the set-up differs from the set-up in RT because i cant have my troops hide until i want them to open up.

[Erwin]

"And a hide command with a cover arc of a unit that has not moved, also means ambush, but should give the unit a huge camouflage bonus, if it is in woods or bushes."

Yes, it should, but...

"Setting an AMBUSH zone. The important thing is good concealment terrain to ambush. If you want your ambush to be more like “hide” with better concealment give a SLOW order one action square away so the troops stay prone, and give cover arc. If you want the troops to go prone without moving to another action square give a slow order in the same action square occupied. NEVER give HIDE in association with ambush."

Now that is an interesting tactic. The only issue with that is one is having to fool/manipulate the "game system" in order to achieve a desired end. So, it's still preferable to have a single order that accomplishes this tactic. And maybe we even call it an AMBUSH command or somesuch?

[Steiner14]

Setting an AMBUSH zone. The important thing is good concealment terrain to ambush. If you want your ambush to be more like “hide” with better concealment give a SLOW order one action square away so the troops stay prone

Never noticed that they stay prone. :eek: Very cool trick.

Do you also have such a wonderful solution for ambushing ATGs?

[Steiner14]

Didn't know it works like that! Seriously? My my, looks like it's time for my gaming knowledge upgrade...

Nope. I meant in reality a cover arc in conjunction with hide would equal to an ambush. Only my wishful thinking it would work that way in CM.

[Vinnart]

Nope. I meant in reality a cover arc in conjunction with hide would equal to an ambush. Only my wishful thinking it would work that way in CM.

Now you understand it. Think of hiding as more of a behavior SOP rather than the graphic one sees which is the same as being prone. The behavior SOP is not to engage, stay hidden with head down, while peeping up to look around now and then. One can still give hide + cover arc for ambush, but it is not as effective in reaction time which can result in the enemy seeing the ambushee first. (I have had that happen). This type of ambush is not really an ambush, but rather a more flexible SOP than hide alone. This tells the troop stay hidden (avoid contact), BUT if the enemy moves in the CA zone they may fire. This is more of a self-preservation ambush rather than a tactical planned ambush. Hide + CA is a much slower reactionary ambush, and not as effective. I would use this if I have enemy that is dangerously close to the hidden unit with good chance of it being discovered. In a CA ambush alone the ambusher will almost always spot, and fire first which is more effective. I used to ambush with hide + CA, but found losing the “hide” is much better in reaction time. This quick reaction time is important in getting the first shot off preserving the element of surprise.

As far as ATG tips admittedly I do not have much experience with them as I have found myself on the attack 90% of the time, but as in any ambush terrain concealment is the key, along with an armor cover arc in the AT units case.

[Hister]

Nope. I meant in reality a cover arc in conjunction with hide would equal to an ambush. Only my wishful thinking it would work that way in CM.

Ah OK, you got me confused right there - good that I returned here, he he.