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Movement to contact and formation orders!


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Please give us a movement to contact order battlefront! It can even be a separate command button... For instance....we could press the command button move, quick, fast etc then click another button that says contact...meaning that if they run into enemy they stop, find cover and return fire. If you just want them to dash from one building to another without stopping even if fired upon...you don't press or add so to speak the contact command. This would stop them from running toward there death, but also allow you to tell them to keep going no matter what! So if you need that dash from cover to caver, dont press the contact command! Second allow squads to have formations, which could be a command button as well! I would also like to see a command button that would allow different spacing yards for squad members ...say ten yards 5 yards etc... I think this could all be done and would add a lot to the game!

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You can combine quick and hunt orders. Have bunch of dudes quick for something like 50m, then pause 10 secs for spotting, then hunt for just one action grid, then quick again and so on. If they spot an enemy within the 10 secs they stop for spotting, they ll not continue their route as soon as the hunt movement starts.

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Yeah, the Hunt-Command for Inf, so useless, all lined up behind each other, one bullet multiple kills and slow as a snail, just a waste of time. In normal walk I can cover 100 m in around 60 seconds. A TRAINED unit uses around 80 seconds to cover the same distance in PROPER (and no, lined up behind each other is only viable in Urban fighting) battle formation normally spread out (there are (german) videos available which cover the proper advance formations in diff. terrain), moreover advance speed is mainly set by the terrain LOS, my figure was for open terrain which is anything with LOS of > 100 m.

The following Movement Commands for Inf should be there:

1. Fast as of now

2. Quick as of now but a tad faster formation is not looked after much (training dependent)

3. March which is a forced walk, not running or jogging again formation dependent on training (Training -> acting as a UNIT !!!)

4. Hunt or better Move to Contact (as in CMAK, CMBB) as already described

5. Advance as Hunt but going to fire and movement (in bounds) when shot at or enemy spotted which can be fought, if outside proper range try to advance further using bounds (dep. on moral etc.)

6. Assault as is now

7. slow which is crouching as now but faster (we did hundreds of meters in training in snow, yes one tires but not after 20 m, rather your elbows start to hurt, if done fast which tires one after 20 odd meter, one can cover roughly 1m/s), try it out yourself !

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...meaning that if they run into enemy they stop, find cover and return fire.

IMHO this should actually be the default behavior in all movement modes. How quickly they respond to incoming fire could be effected by experience level, and how long they simply cower without returning fire by morale.

Or something like that.

Michael

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7. slow which is crouching...

Crouching or crawling? My understanding is that at the present, Slow represents men crawling. In any event, I think I agree that they tire just a little too quickly. But this may be a one size fits all where men with heavy equipment like MGs or mortars are included.

Michael

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IMHO this should actually be the default behavior in all movement modes. How quickly they respond to incoming fire could be effected by experience level, and how long they simply cower without returning fire by morale.

Or something like that.

Michael

I thought about that Michael but the problem with that is that is this...lets use this one example. Lets say I want my squad or section to dash from one building to the next...I don't want them to come under fire down the street and they drop and start firing at the enemy in an exposed position...id rather be able to give a move to contact command. That way if I just want them to dash and keep going to the next building even if fired upon I can and the will stop at nothing to get to that building and cover.. In the same instance if I want them to advance quickly and if they come under fire from the front that they will drop and find cover..so it gives you the option depending on your sitituation. I think formations and a movement to contact command that can be added to all movement orders is a must have in an already great great game.

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Lets say I want my squad or section to dash from one building to the next...I don't want them to come under fire down the street and they drop and start firing at the enemy in an exposed position...

That's what "Fast" would get you.

Currently, the unit's "agression" or "persistence" is at least somewhat bound to their movement mode. Fast is a "get there at all costs" mode. Quick less so, and Slow will respond to incoming pretty consistently.

...a movement to contact command that can be added to all movement orders...

Would be a bear to design an interface for that everyone would get on with, and which works for both RT and WeGo. It'd involve putting code hooks in to everywhere. This is neither trivial nor needed, IMO.

...is a must have in an already great great game.

Must have? I seem to do okay without it. Any number of workarounds have been posted in this very thread. I'd far rather things like Fire and a more comprehensive inventory system were prioritised.

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I thought about that Michael but the problem with that is that is this...lets use this one example. Lets say I want my squad or section to dash from one building to the next...I don't want them to come under fire down the street and they drop and start firing at the enemy in an exposed position...

Okay, that's a legitimate counter-argument. Maybe the solution is to have the Fast order excluded from the "drop and return fire" obligation. It would mean simply "Go hell for leather and don't stop until you get to the waypoint."

Michael

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One problem with a 'fast' move-to-contact would be situational awareness drops to near zero at a run. 200 yards into a 300 yard dash would you even notice the guys behind you were getting plugged? I never use 'fast' command for anything except 'Run for the hills!' as mortar rounds start to zero in. In those circumstance you want them to keep running no matter what. 'Quick' is much prefereable. And if you do assault put the waypoints close together so the supporting team can actually provide some cover fire. A 100 yard 'assault' from behind a building does nobody any good. :)

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Crouching or crawling? My understanding is that at the present, Slow represents men crawling. In any event, I think I agree that they tire just a little too quickly. But this may be a one size fits all where men with heavy equipment like MGs or mortars are included.

Michael

I too would like slow to be crouching keeping to cover as much as possible and their heads low but totally aware and be able to cover a decent distance before getting tired\fatigued and then have a crawl movement as a separate order for when you want your recon to crawl to the edge of a wood to get a look on whats going on etc.

Also line formation pretty pretty please..many issue arise because the squads play follow the leader and even in hunt they are still to close to each other..

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Crouching or crawling? My understanding is that at the present, Slow represents men crawling. In any event, I think I agree that they tire just a little too quickly. But this may be a one size fits all where men with heavy equipment like MGs or mortars are included.

Michael

What do you mean with one size fits all ? Of course men should tire quicker when ladden with heavy stuff (not down to the ounce, but howling a 81mm Mortar base plate around you damn sure won't jogg very far). I still remember with some pain, how the HMG-Teams tired in CMAK poor sods !

Terrain should also play a role, does it now in CMBF ?

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I too would love to see an additional Hunt command called, for example, "Continuous Hunt," that would mimic the old CMx1 Hunt. So, if your unit is moving and sees something, it stops and engages. Then, if it loses visual on it for a few seconds, it starts moving to the next waypoint again, rinse and repeat.

That would greatly enhance the ability to execute desired attacks. As it is now, all too often some units will be distracted by non-intended targets and/or incidental arty rounds and will stop, leaving the poor suckers left to bumble their way into the enemy now unsupported.

IMO, this is particularly needed for AFVs. Many times, my 3 tanks have ended up being 1 tank attacking a Tiger/Panther, because 2 stopped before they could see it.

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I too would love to see an additional Hunt command called, for example, "Continuous Hunt," that would mimic the old CMx1 Hunt. So, if your unit is moving and sees something, it stops and engages. Then, if it loses visual on it for a few seconds, it starts moving to the next waypoint again, rinse and repeat.

That would greatly enhance the ability to execute desired attacks. As it is now, all too often some units will be distracted by non-intended targets and/or incidental arty rounds and will stop, leaving the poor suckers left to bumble their way into the enemy now unsupported.

IMO, this is particularly needed for AFVs. Many times, my 3 tanks have ended up being 1 tank attacking a Tiger/Panther, because 2 stopped before they could see it.

Yup - I'd echo that :) It would also be very useful in AI Plans to have that same behaviour for AI units - especially AFVs. FWIW my workaround at the moment is order AFVs forward and give them pause commands (around 15 - 20s) at useful tactical points. It also means I do tend to be way cannier with establishing units in overwatch whilst I either slow move forward my armour or have it move quick or fast with tactical 15-20s pauses.

Overall using short pauses like above tends to work well in action although a bit time consuming to plot - hence I often save it for moments I've a good idea I'm going to contact enemy units. At a push plotting units to move 'slow' is a good compromise as the tank is moving slow enough it stands a chance of spotting and firing at the enemy.

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Yeah, George MC, I've also integrated lots of timed pauses into my waypoint plotting -- especially for infantry teams attacking across open ground. They can really work well (though, yes, they are tedious to plot sometimes).

But for those times when seconds really make the difference, I'd love to have a Continuous Hunt command.

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Overall using short pauses like above tends to work well in action although a bit time consuming to plot - hence I often save it for moments I've a good idea I'm going to contact enemy units. At a push plotting units to move 'slow' is a good compromise as the tank is moving slow enough it stands a chance of spotting and firing at the enemy.

Stuttering movements like this do seem to mean I don't often get "tear my hear out" moments when pTruppen and pPanzers carry on doing something I told 'em to, when I (and probably they!) would really rather they didn't. If your typical bound is only a couple of AS, it's not such a big deal when the survivors don't hit the deck as soon as the team takes casualties: they're going to in a few seconds anyway, and probably somewhere that's got some cover or concealment.

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I too would like slow to be crouching keeping to cover as much as possible and their heads low but totally aware and be able to cover a decent distance before getting tired\fatigued and then have a crawl movement as a separate order for when you want your recon to crawl to the edge of a wood to get a look on whats going on etc.

Exactly. If I wasn't clear before, this is what I would like to see.

Michael

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At a push plotting units to move 'slow' is a good compromise as the tank is moving slow enough it stands a chance of spotting and firing at the enemy.

I've been doing this for several months now because it feels right, but honestly have no idea whether it is really all that productive as I do not notice my tanks doing much firing while engaged in any kind of movement...which I am inclined to think is how it was in reality. I like your idea of putting in waypoints with pauses and will give that a try next time out. But ideally, there should be a command to pause and engage when a target is spotted and then recommence movement after it has disappeared or been seen to die.

Michael

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