Erwin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 In a CMFI game I noticed that my spotting HQ would require 7 minutes to bring down mortar fire. Once plotted the clock showed 7 then 6 minutes next turn... Then on the 3rd turn (minute) suddenly spotting rounds were falling and around the 4 or 5 minute mark, the barrage arrived. Is there an accelerated clock bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You may be right, in one of the campaigns I called in 105 fire and thought it was a bit odd that it seemed to be falling early - I just didn't pay too much attention though. Calls for testing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think that timing should be thought of as approximate.. and you might get your rounds, early or late. That is as it should be for this period. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think that timing should be thought of as approximate.. and you might get your rounds, early or late. That is as it should be for this period. I think that this is correct; I've had a similar experience on a couple of occasions in both CM:BN and FI and put it down to this. The critical thing, if your spotter is hiding and needs to poke his head above the parapet at the right moment to call the bombardment in, is to keep your eyes open for the first spotting rounds and also for the point at which the indicator on the arty menu changes to "spotting". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am not sure But when my Arty has come early, I just thought it was because the first spotting round was on Target. so the main volley comes next. Have not tested it though. But the Time given you seems to have built in the approx. time for 3 or 4 volleys to spot and correct, then it preforms the main attack. I have seen it take longer than the clock if the spotter cannot see the spotting rounds also. I had one happen recently where 20 rounds were fired, all as spotting rounds. but that was all I had was 20-105 rounds. So it was harassing fire and I did not mind since many of the rounds were landing deep in his cover that I could not get a arty strike to anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't recall seeing this happen in CMBN altho' not 100% sure. But, it seems strange that the spotting rounds started 3 or 4 minutes early followed by the barrage, each being about 3 minutes earlier than the clock. I don't think I have seen this with an FO, only when using an HQ with much longer spotting round arrival times listed. I can save game turns to show this... or is it the general consensus that this is just another example of realistic randomness built in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's certainly more rare that spotting rounds arrive early. My impression is that it's much more likely with experienced spotters and crews (based on the fact I think I've only ever seen it with Veterans and Regulars, not Greens). I vote for the 'built in variation' interpretation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 True, barages come early when the spotting round are right on target the first tries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Does the clock give one time to the spotting rounds, or the barrage? It's often lovely to have barrages arrive several minutes early when attacking guns, but not if you've planned attacks/retreats based on the clock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I've personally never quite figured out the arty "clock". You call in a barrage - it says ( for eg. ) "5 Min". That counts down, but at around 2 Min to go, the timer disappears. Then it spots. ... for as long as it takes. It can take much, much longer than the 2 minutes you thought it had to go. In one game I had, my mortar fired its entire ammo load "spotting". It never did fire the barrage It would be nice if it a) told you whether or not your spotting rounds were spotted. told you how many spotting rounds are required for the barrage to be successfully spotted. Correlating with (a) you'd know where you were in the process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 It would be nice if it a) told you whether or not your spotting rounds were spotted. Yeah. I'd like to hear some chatter back and forth. told you how many spotting rounds are required for the barrage to be successfully spotted. It's not a matter of successfully spotting rounds, AIUI, it's a matter of getting one round close enough to the target and one other reference round. At that point, there's one last little correction that the spotter and gunnery controller know will be right, because they've got a good basis for eliminating any initial discrepancies in locations and accounting for local conditions, and the FFE is called. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 It's not a matter of successfully spotting rounds, AIUI, it's a matter of getting one round close enough to the target and one other reference round. At that point, there's one last little correction that the spotter and gunnery controller know will be right, because they've got a good basis for eliminating any initial discrepancies in locations and accounting for local conditions, and the FFE is called. Is that how CM does it ? I'd expect to see spotting rounds "walk" steadily closer to the target area via instructions from the FO, but the spotting rounds I see just kinda drop anywhere until at some mystical time, FFE is called. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Baneman, Mystical time, eh? Wonder how Charles delimits that when coding( If Spot round, Set (cast spell/YN* Tmystical)Add RN1-5)? Does someone there have to add nutrient broth to his jar because of boil overs? Hurt my head just coming up with it. That and it's been ages since I last wrote code. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Is that how CM does it ? I'd expect to see spotting rounds "walk" steadily closer to the target area via instructions from the FO, but the spotting rounds I see just kinda drop anywhere until at some mystical time, FFE is called. I guess it depends, but I see them "walk" onto the target more often than I see them scatter. Perhaps it depends on quality of FO/battery. Maybe "good" combos are near the target so corrections result in overs and unders, whereas a "weak" combo has to be more methodical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 It's quite possible, womble, I haven't used big arty enough to say for sure - I got frustrated that whenever the arty timer disappeared, I had no way of telling how long until the barrage ( and it seemed to vary a lot. ) Nowadays I either use onmap mortars in DF mode or TRP's if I can get any. I know TRP's aren't always realistic, but this is a computer game - if I have to record stuff on pieces of paper so I know how long it's been since I called in a strike, there's a UI issue right there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 It would be nice if it a) told you whether or not your spotting rounds were spotted. Yes. told you how many spotting rounds are required for the barrage to be successfully spotted. How would it know that? Think about it: The FO is out on an active battlefield, possibly dodging bullets and shells; he has iffy coms back to the battery; and then there are all the variables effecting where the spotting rounds will hit after they leave the tube. The FO might not see where the round lands; the battery might either not receive his correction or receive it and not understand it correctly. Maybe one or more additional spotting rounds are called for before they can get it on target. Not saying that it should work that way in every instance, just trying to point out that the number of spotting rounds can't be predicted with certainty in advance. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Fair enough, but it's easy enough to give you some sort of information in the UI. Eg. Whenever a spotting round falls, if it's heading the right way, put a green dot on the Artillery UI. If it's not observed or is too badly placed to be of any use, place a red dot. When you have 3 greens ( or whatever number is deemed correct ), you know FFE is coming. That way you have feedback, you have information and a decent guide to how long you still have to go. Think about it - right now, internally the game has some sort of algorithm that's telling it "That one was good" or "Spotting round writeoff, need another" for each spotting round that falls. All it needs is some way to communicate that information to the player. That battle where my mortar fired 28 spotting rounds - If I'd seen for eg. 7 red spotting indicators in a row, I'd know it's somehow completely bollixed and just cancel it. At the moment you're just in limbo - every turn it might get it right and drop the barrage, so you wait another turn ... and another and so on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Fair enough, but it's easy enough to give you some sort of information in the UI. Eg. Whenever a spotting round falls, if it's heading the right way, put a green dot on the Artillery UI. If it's not observed or is too badly placed to be of any use, place a red dot. When you have 3 greens ( or whatever number is deemed correct ), you know FFE is coming. That way you have feedback, you have information and a decent guide to how long you still have to go. Think about it - right now, internally the game has some sort of algorithm that's telling it "That one was good" or "Spotting round writeoff, need another" for each spotting round that falls. All it needs is some way to communicate that information to the player. That battle where my mortar fired 28 spotting rounds - If I'd seen for eg. 7 red spotting indicators in a row, I'd know it's somehow completely bollixed and just cancel it. At the moment you're just in limbo - every turn it might get it right and drop the barrage, so you wait another turn ... and another and so on. I like that idea. That should be added when they revamp the Arty AI. You're right, the FO has to have "an idea" of the state of the spotting sequence, and conveying that idea to the player would be, I believe, reasonable. You could have the number of "good spots" needed vary with aggregate experience and possibly some randomisation. You could even allow an early FFE call, sort of as a half way house to "Emergency". If "Emergency" has a 10% chance of falling near the aim point, and it takes 3 green spots to make it 100% chance, each green spot could be considered as an extra 30% chance to convert an "Emergency" shoot into a "Spotted" one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 The question is what would happen in RL. How many errant spotting rounds would be shot before someone said, "Stop shooting. We're wasting ammo, maybe the spotter is an idiot?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 The question is what would happen in RL. How many errant spotting rounds would be shot before someone said, "Stop shooting. We're wasting ammo, maybe the spotter is an idiot?" That's an entirely separate question. Entirely valid, but separate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Maybe BFC will make some adjustments when they fix the "dead FO = arty denied to everyone else forever" issue. I'm forever optimistic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Shoot... I thought that was fixed in the last update(?) And Womble, I understand what you mean re the thread. But, isn't the underlying issue one of realism? Once one agrees on what would happen in RL all else would/should follow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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