Ted Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm playing a scenario where, as the attacker, I have two hidden objectives I need to occupy to gain victory points. There's not much description in the manual about this so I thought I would bring it up here on the forum. Just to get it straight.... Somewhere on the map are two VL's that I can't see. I need to guess what the locations are such as high ground, cross roads, houses or exit area's. More or less I need to occupy all of the above locations and hope one of them is a VL? How do you guys handle hidden objectives? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 If they are hidden occupy objectives then you won't know their locations and will only know after the game if you held them. If they are hidden touch objectives then you will be informed as soon as your troops reach them. They could also be used in conjunction, ie. hidden touch and occupy objectives on the same location, where the touch informs you that you have found the location that you need to occupy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm having a bit of trouble grasping the rationale behind hidden objectives. Actually, that sounds almost like an oxymoron. Captain: "Alright Lieutenant, I want you to take your platoon and go capture an objective." Lieutenant: "Yessir. And what is my objective?" Captain: "I'm not going to tell you until after you capture it." Lieutenant: "Sir?..." :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Actually, that does sound a bit like the Army. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm having a bit of trouble grasping the rationale behind hidden objectives. Actually, that sounds almost like an oxymoron. Captain: "Alright Lieutenant, I want you to take your platoon and go capture an objective." Lieutenant: "Yessir. And what is my objective?" Captain: "I'm not going to tell you until after you capture it." Lieutenant: "Sir?..." :confused: Michael A historical example might be the German guns at Pointe du Hoc. The original objective was to eliminate the German guns, but they had been moved away prior to the assault. In the end the guns were found but in a different place. It's up to the scenario designer to do it in a reasonable manner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm having a bit of trouble grasping the rationale behind hidden objectives. Actually, that sounds almost like an oxymoron. I find them fantastic, because it makes scenarios possible where it's up to the player to find the important tactical objectives (Auftragstaktik). In reality is there always a flag indicating the location, the enemy is seeing as important? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 A historical example might be the German guns at Pointe du Hoc. The original objective was to eliminate the German guns, but they had been moved away prior to the assault. In the end the guns were found but in a different place. It's up to the scenario designer to do it in a reasonable manner. Yeah, but the objective was to destroy the guns. It's odd when the objective is a piece of ground, but nobody will tell you where it is. It's a big secret. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I thought the whole point of hidden objectives was that they are only known to the side that has to achieve the objective(s). For example the Axis side may need to take this location or that location or destroy the HQ or some other unit deemed important by the scenario designer to score points. All while the Allies have no clue that is the intention of the Axis. Meanwhile the Allies have a whole other set of objectives unknown to the Axis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I thought the whole point of hidden objectives was that they are only known to the side that has to achieve the objective(s). For example the Axis side may need to take this location or that location or destroy the HQ or some other unit deemed important by the scenario designer to score points. All while the Allies have no clue that is the intention of the Axis. Meanwhile the Allies have a whole other set of objectives unknown to the Axis. Nah that's simply different objectives for each side. A hidden objective is hidden from the side that has to achieve it. Usage could be something as simple as "find the german spy" or "rescue the downed pilot" You don't know where they are, but upon finding the hidden objective you are assumed to have achieved the goal. In Nijmegen for example one unit was sent to a building to destroy the bridge demolition controls. They actually weren't there, in fact it was a pretty stupid thought as it would have meant the demolition controls were on the Allied facing side of the river. Apparently the Dutch thought they were there and the paras didn't think to question them. Back to the point you could have guys searching to locate the demolition controls for a bridge. Lots of potential use if you think about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Nah that's simply different objectives for each side. A hidden objective is hidden from the side that has to achieve it. Usage could be something as simple as "find the german spy" or "rescue the downed pilot" You don't know where they are, but upon finding the hidden objective you are assumed to have achieved the goal...... But in this case you know when you found the hidden objective be it a pilot or spy or tactical ground. In a scenario that has hidden objectives do you receive a message that you reached the objective or do you have to wait until the game is over to find out if you occupy the objective or not? If so, does this mean you need to leave leave a team of men at every point that could be a possible objective? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 But in this case you know when you found the hidden objective be it a pilot or spy or tactical ground. In a scenario that has hidden objectives do you receive a message that you reached the objective or do you have to wait until the game is over to find out if you occupy the objective or not? If so, does this mean you need to leave leave a team of men at every point that could be a possible objective? Good question. I'd hope you'd have some kind of notification. Not sure how you would use hidden objectives where you only found out in the end whether you'd actually achieved it, but going by Sergei's note it seems possible to have ones you never know until the end. If they are hidden occupy objectives then you won't know their locations and will only know after the game if you held them. If they are hidden touch objectives then you will be informed as soon as your troops reach them. They could also be used in conjunction, ie. hidden touch and occupy objectives on the same location, where the touch informs you that you have found the location that you need to occupy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I thought the whole point of hidden objectives was that they are only known to the side that has to achieve the objective(s). For example the Axis side may need to take this location or that location or destroy the HQ or some other unit deemed important by the scenario designer to score points. All while the Allies have no clue that is the intention of the Axis. Meanwhile the Allies have a whole other set of objectives unknown to the Axis. That would at least make sense. Be too bad if it isn't the case. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hidden objectives could be used to reward initiative. In a game that's just winding up, I started defending the mouth of a valley. All my visible VLs are at the base of the valley, but I can see that it would be very advantageous to retake the forward positions I was driven out of, now that I've broken most of the attackers. I even suspect that they may be opposition VLs, and it would be good to deny them. So a hidden VL is a positive version of the "different" opposing VLs; the latter increases your victory margin if you're contesting them, by denying the enemy points, whereas the former adds to your points if you have the gumption to go looking for a better victory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I thought the whole point of hidden objectives was that they are only known to the side that has to achieve the objective(s). No, the whole point is that the designer can use them in a way that suits his purposes. Eg. in CMSF you might have a mission "find and occupy insurgent ammo stash". The location is only revealed to you when you find it by a concurrent Touch objective. You can even make an Exit area hidden. Very useful for missions taking place in the vicinity of Area 51, you step into the wrong place and you get beamed up. Nobody forces designers to use hidden objectives, it all comes down to enabling their inherent evilness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hidden objectives make very much sense in meeting engagements or other fluid battles. Your company is redeploying and runs into an opposing one. Your higher ups didn't expect this battle to occur and you're such a great company commander that you analysed the terrain and occupied the key locations while driving off the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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