DarkFib3r Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I am wondering how to extricate a squad from a building that happens to fall under heavy MG fire from a distance. Here is the specific scenario. I set up a squad in a building and have them hide with a short cover arc in front of the building, to zap any infiltrators who may come by. Infiltrators stumble into my ambush and are wiped out, but the squad has now revealed itself and is coming under heavy MG fire from 100m away. The fire pins my squad. There is a covered escape at the back of the house that the squad is in. The squad has no smoke with them. What is the best way to get these guys out of harms way? I have tried sneaking out, I have tried hiding, I have tried moving quickly out and I have tried moving out fast. Since the squad is pinned, it prefers to stay put and suffers casualties and none of my commands seem particularly effective. Is there a suggested way to get these guys out of the house when they come under heavy fire? Any suggestions are welcome! Cheers, Jason 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Smoke. LOL no not cigarettes.. of any kind. The problem you are running into is simply any order you give them is likely to be countermanded by their survival TAC AI with all the incoming fire. They need concealment. If you have smoke, use it. Whether it be from the team (the least likely of being successful as they are already having issues) or from another source if you can get it there quick. Once your opponent can't target them, the odds increase dramatically for you to get them out of there. My opponents have taught me to start paying more attention to the uses of smoke in a battle, something I frequently over look. edit:sorry just saw your noting you don't have any. Do you have anything else that does? An armored vehicle, mortar? anything at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Too bad you don't have smoke. If they keep dropping and cowering when you give them orders, just give the a hide command and wait it out. In the meantime, of course, you gotta get some fire down on the guys shooting at the house. Usually, if they are on the first floor, I go fast out the back door and hide behind the house - then slow out of there, or sprint across to more cover. If I'm on the 2nd floor, I go slow downstairs and out the back and hide. It tires them out going slow, but they'll stay hidden while moving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Its hard to get it into our head that just because there are buildings on the map that we're not obliged to occupy them. They tend to become bullet and shell magnets. If you feel compelled to use a building get in-and-out quick. Do your business (spotting from an upper floor or sniping) then hot-foot it out the back door before all hell breaks loose. Veterans would often tend to prefer the most innocuous piece of ground they could find to hunker-down in. Nothing close to them that would be considered an aim point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 DarkFib3r, Welcome aboard! Wish I had a solution for you, but if Slow doesn't get the job done, then the other, more exposed options certainly won't, so I agree with sburke's analysis. The only suggestion I would offer is that maybe you think in terms of suppressive fire on the HMG. At 100 meters, everything, including SMGs but excluding pistols, should be effective. Beat on the HMG with everything you can, then attempt to get your guys out. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Thanks for the responses! I agree that popping smoke is one of the best alternatives. Short of that, laying suppressing fire on the enemy MG is always prudent, although this is sometimes hard to do as a defender with few troops. Perhaps I need to plan my defensive positions better to offer some mutual support, if the terrain gods permit it! The tip about hiding until the enemy fire becomes less effective and then slinking away seems to work. I also agree that hitting the enemy and then sprinting out before the MG starts firing is a good tactic. Thanks for your time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm reminded of an ongoing debate about whether its preferable to run or to walk through a rainstorm if you get caught in a cloudburst. Which behavior gets you wetter? The same debate can hold true on the topic of incoming mg fire too. If you tell your men to 'run' they throw caution to the wind and half of them immediately get shot in the back for their troubles. But is half shot in the back worse than everyone being picked off one-by-one while crawling? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Perhaps I need to plan my defensive positions better to offer some mutual support, if the terrain gods permit it! Also, plan ahead of time if you intend to abandon a position. If not, then what follows doesn't matter - just fight them to the death But if you do plan to have your guys pull back, you need to ensure that the positions you put them in actually allow for a withdrawal. Only having a door on the enemy side of the buidling is an obvious gotcha. In general, it's a good idea to only occupy positions that allow you to break LOS as soon as possible after you abandon fighting from them. Crossing lots of open ground is a good way to get your fleeing troopies shot down or at least to wreck their morale. You can factor in use of smoke as part of your break contact drill, and the British 2-in mortar is brilliant for that - fight as long as practical, pop smoke, then leg it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Some other things Assuming you had your guys hiding and assigned them a target at the beginning of a turn. Give them a pause of 30-45 seconds and then have them move out. This allows you to be out of LOS and LOF by end of turn leaving your opponent nothing to target at the start of their next turn. Once you trip the ambush, there is little to be gained by sticking around. If on the other hand your ambush was triggered mid turn by enemy approaching within your target zone, then issue an immediate move to exit the space the following turn. This is probably one of the hardest things to get used to - knowing when it is time to leave. Generally is it NOW. If you think "well I nailed the team that my unit spotted so I'll hang around" all you have done is given away your position to all the unspotted enemy units with LOF to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 S This is probably one of the hardest things to get used to - knowing when it is time to leave. Generally is it NOW. If you think "well I nailed the team that my unit spotted so I'll hang around" all you have done is given away your position to all the unspotted enemy units with LOF to you. And even if you're (for example) conducting the early stages of a reverse slope defense, and you've killed or driven off any units that advanced beyond the crest so there aren't any units with LOF/LOS to you, your opponent will have an idea where your ambushing elements are and will be able to choose the best avenues of approach to engage you in detail. Their troops will have a better chance of spotting yours earlier too, it seems. So it's sometimes best to bug out while they're reorganising to have another go rather than get overrun when they get their act sorted out. So long as you don't get caught retreating... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I have not played any of the CM1 games for a long time now since they don't work very well with my new computer...If i don't remember wrong...In CM1 there was a WITHDRAW command you could use in such i situation... Your unit would be able to withdraw despite beeing under heavy fire but would suffer some moral penalties... Maybe this command could also be included in CM2 in the near future..? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I have not played any of the CM1 games for a long time now since they don't work very well with my new computer...If i don't remember wrong...In CM1 there was a WITHDRAW command you could use in such i situation... Your unit would be able to withdraw despite beeing under heavy fire but would suffer some moral penalties... Maybe this command could also be included in CM2 in the near future..? What sort of magic shield would allow this sort of behaviour? It might have been relevant and worthwhile with abstracted firepower and squads, but there's no place for it in the 1:1 bullet:target mapping of x2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I have not played any of the CM1 games for a long time now since they don't work very well with my new computer...If i don't remember wrong...In CM1 there was a WITHDRAW command you could use in such i situation... Your unit would be able to withdraw despite beeing under heavy fire but would suffer some moral penalties... Maybe this command could also be included in CM2 in the near future..? The WITHDRAW command in CMx1 didn't work that way, and it wouldn't be very useful in this situation. As you may recall, in CMx1, all movement orders were subject to a command delay. Exactly how much delay depended on a range of details. What WITHDRAW allowed you to do was get a unit moving more or less instantly, without command delay. The trade-off was a severe morale penalty. Units given a WITHDRAW often panicked even if they weren't under fire. Under fire, units often routed and became useless for the rest of the fight after executing a WITHDRAW order. WITHDRAW was most useful in situations where a unit was not yet under heavy fire, but you suspected it was going to be very shortly, such as when you saw an artillery spotting round come in. The best order for breaking contact in CMx1 was actually a retrograde ASSAULT order. In any event, WITHDRAW isn't really relevant to CMx2, since there are no longer command delays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The WITHDRAW command in CMx1 didn't work that way, and it wouldn't be very useful in this situation. As you may recall, in CMx1, all movement orders were subject to a command delay. Exactly how much delay depended on a range of details. What WITHDRAW allowed you to do was get a unit moving more or less instantly, without command delay. The trade-off was a severe morale penalty. Units given a WITHDRAW often panicked even if they weren't under fire. Under fire, units often routed and became useless for the rest of the fight after executing a WITHDRAW order. WITHDRAW was most useful in situations where a unit was not yet under heavy fire, but you suspected it was going to be very shortly, such as when you saw an artillery spotting round come in. The best order for breaking contact in CMx1 was actually a retrograde ASSAULT order. In any event, WITHDRAW isn't really relevant to CMx2, since there are no longer command delays. OK...i remenber now...The NO command-delay was the big benefit of the withdraw command...Not needed in CM2 obviously...just an idea... my thinking was that with a withdraw command the unit would make a last desperate attempt to make it out of there and 'ignore' the incomming fire...but they should not be bullit proof. With the fast, quick and slow commands they just hugg the ground and stay put (most of the time) until they are wiped out. The withdraw command could be a 'ordered' ROUT of some sort Like i said...no biggie...just an idea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There is a retreat button. the unit will FAST to the closest AI-assumed safe spot, and then FACE towards the enemy. I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but it 'seems' to me that retreat will activate while pinned, while other movement commands will not. You still need smoke though, or you need to suppress the units firing on your position. HIDE will help for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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