Armour Piercing Rounds

[xian]

My Panzergrenadier squad keeps picking up a few 7.62mm AP rounds (maybe from a nearby halftrack??) every time they throw a grenade and then use those rounds in their Kar 98K rifles - are these rounds meant to be compatible with those rifles?

[YankeeDog]

Yes; 7.82mm AP ammo was compatible with Kar 98K rifles and could be used by infantry equipped with such rifles.

My understanding is that the more expensive AP ammo was not usually issued to rifleman and rather reserved for other uses where it was thought the additional armor-piercing capability might be more more important, such as MGs in Armored Cars. But if a rifleman short of ammo scrounged a belt of 7.92 AP ammo, he could certainly use it.

[Erwin]

It's a question that's puzzled me too.

If 7.62 is the standard round, why is every ammo resupply source only loaded with the AP variant (and nothing for the StG44 at all other than in bunkers)? Reality check plz.

[Pak40]

It's 7.92mm and I don't think there is any difference between the so called AP rounds found in half tracks and the non AP rounds carried by all infantry units. It's probably just a naming issue. The Kar98 and the MG42 fired the same round.

[YankeeDog]

It's 7.92mm and I don't think there is any difference between the so called AP rounds found in half tracks and the non AP rounds carried by all infantry units. It's probably just a naming issue. The Kar98 and the MG42 fired the same round.

IRL, there was a difference between the standard ball "Schweres Spitzgechoss" and the steel-cored "Spitzgechoss mit Kern" 7.92mm rounds. Whether there is any difference modeled in the game, I couldn't say.

In any event, even if there is a difference, it's only likely have a measurable effect in fairly specific situations, such as when shooting at a lightly armored vehicle like a Halftrack or M8 Greyhound. Anything more heavily armored than this, and a 7.92mm round isn't going to penetrate regardless of type. The 7.92mm AP might also be slightly better at penetrating hard cover like building walls. But again, the effect would probably be fairly slight and difficult to measure in most situations.

Also worth noting there is a similar difference on the American side with .30-'06 ammo types. BAR teams especially apparently often loaded AP rounds rather than standard ball into their magazine. Again, though, I'm not sure there would really be a noticeable difference in most situations.

[Pak40]

OK, I finally found some info about German 7.92 ammo.

go to page 187: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GHEr1L1-ZSgJ:www.cgsc.edu/carl/docrepository/SpecialSeriesNo14.pdf+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

There are lots of variants, I'm sure they all work in all 7.92mm guns. I suppose CMBN is actually modeling the difference between the AP and the ball.

[Statisoris]

Not to be an ass about it but I think this is something like the 30th iteration of this thread/question.

[Rayak47]

Maybe, but I'm enjoying it for the first time!

[slysniper]

Sounds like we need a ammo grog here.

As for use, of course they could use them.

As for game impact, not something we could notice how within the game as it is designed.

For real world situation. I would guess that the difference between the two rounds might be hardness and shape of the bullet itself, and the amount of powder in the casing could be different also.

No question these things affect the flight of the bullet and the wear on the weapon.

I can only go off my knowledge of the fact that back when, Our sniper rifles fired a .308 round ( which allowed us to also use the Nato 7.62 round,) Which we had plenty of because of the M60 MG.

So needless to say, we had fired four types of ammo out of our rifles. Three were

A match quality round, a general purpose round, A armor piercing round.

I can tell you for sure, a armor piercing round fires hotter and is harder on ones weapon, we had to be careful to not overheat our barrels.

Weapons are generally designed for a specific load, when you use something else. the flight trajectory changes and one would need to have a good working knowledge of that to not have it affect ones accuracy. At 300,400, 500 yards it really starts to show.

[Pak40]

Not to be an ass about it but I think this is something like the 30th iteration of this thread/question.

First I've seen on the subject and I frequent the forums a lot. Anyway, there have been far more threads on the topic of buddy aid or acquiring ammo. I'm really getting sick of those but, hey I've kept my mouth shut... so far:D

[Michael Emrys]

Weapons are generally designed for a specific load, when you use something else. the flight trajectory changes and one would need to have a good working knowledge of that to not have it affect ones accuracy. At 300,400, 500 yards it really starts to show.

I don't have much information on the precise round in question, but the above sounds right to me. If the 7.92 AP round is truly steel cored, wouldn't it be a little lighter? And if that is the case, wouldn't it lose velocity quicker? If it does, it would tend to drop more downrange. The difference might not be noticeable at typical combat ranges, but theoretically it should be possible.

Michael

[c3k]

I don't have much information on the precise round in question, but the above sounds right to me. If the 7.92 AP round is truly steel cored, wouldn't it be a little lighter? And if that is the case, wouldn't it lose velocity quicker? If it does, it would tend to drop more downrange. The difference might not be noticeable at typical combat ranges, but theoretically it should be possible.

Michael

Unless it starts with a higher muzzle velocity. Downrange drop would be very close to the non-AP round. (Oh, sure, a very rough approximation. )

[slysniper]

Of course for us, it became very clear that each round needed the rifle sites adjusted for the round being fired. But again, we would be 600 to 8oo yards very often, so by then there is a major difference.

But even at 200 yards, which should be zero for many rifles with the correct ammo, we could see the varience and add recorded adjustments for the round, but for an combat troop, it would not be a issue as to hitting a man target at normal combat range.

[c3k]

^^^ That: at combat ranges at combat typical targets it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Not saying there _aren't_ differences in the ballistics, aimpoints, trajetories, etc., but that those differences shrink to a lower magnitude than other accuracy detriments and are beneath the level of accuracy requirements.