danfrodo

The weird part of this is that UKR is basically facing WW1 France, w trench lines in depth stretching for the entire front. Plus mines. There is no flanking, there is no maneuver until one breaks through. But is that what NATO militaries were built for? Where was NATO expected to face this kind of challenge? So I am not sure NATO got things 'wrong'. They were just planning on very different challenges than this. Combined arms and maneuver would probably work really well if RU was trying to advance and NATO was told to stop them. I actually was hoping UKR would flank the northern end of the line through RU territory (for just a short ways) and cut off Starobilsk. That would've been fun.

Having worked very heavily in additive manuf from 2015 to march 2023, I can't imagine why anyone laughed at you. What a great idea. We could just 3d print bullets. Or arty shells. Or drones. On site. totally makes sense. Or maybe we could 3d print replacement soldiers, on the battlefield.

Daily dos of daily kos confirmation bias: I do wish things were going faster. Go slow has some benefits, but it also gives RU time to counter -- laying more mines, moving troops, etc. Could UKR go faster at cost of high initial casualties but get breakthrough? I don't know. A big push that failed would be really bad -- high casualties & a morale killer. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/6/2191834/-Ukraine-Update-How-Robotyne-became-the-center-of-the-counteroffensive

you should delete this if you have any sense whatsoever, and hope it wasn't seen by the east coast forum admins who are probably asleep

How stupid does one have to be to not see through an alleged nefarious international plot that requires something as ridiculous as (drum roll please)..... a jewish nazi.

Yes, I agree. The Nicaraguan Somoza family kleptocracy is a good example of this (somozas were the ones overthrown by the sandinistas back in the early 80s). I think this is not too off-topic since we're discussing RU govt.

Good lord, this is disgusting. Maybe Putin & Elon M can get together and rant about 'the jews'. That's the only 'diplomacy' I see possible right now. At least they'd have some common ground to start from. (Musk currently publicly saying jewish anti-defamation league is what actually killed twitter's ad revenue -- which is bat**** anti-semitic lunacy)

This is what I've been hoping: that UKR has enough resources to threaten toward Vasylivka and down from 'the Novos' while keeping the heavy assaults around Robotyne. If it's true that RU is short on reserves and supplies (from ammo dumps destruction) then hopefully one of these sectors blows open and causes a cascading crisis along this front.

Norway is a fossil fuel state where the wealth is distributed. Russia is a fossil fuel state where the wealth is not. Hence, backing up the point made by Steve et al above

Well said, LLF. Very good to remind us all that just because what RU side believes is false doesn't mean they don't believe it. And it motivates them to continue.

I don't want to derail the thread, but it's hard to find an American who's done as lasting damage to the world as MacArthur by allowing his egomania and zealotry blow a complete victory. Like a football match team being up 10 goals to zero and then having to forfeit into a draw for some reason.

sooner or later there will be negotiations. I think everyone knows that. Even knuckleheads like me know it. But for now there's nothing for UKR to negotiate. The barest minimum start for talking would be for RU to return to Feb 22 'borders'. And even that most obvious requirement is not on the table. Right now it would be like Hitler asking to negotiate the status of France in late July 1944, just before Cobra.

I went back to CMBN to a scenario I played when I first got the game. didn't remember too much. I did remember a panther on one side of town. Turns out there were multiple panthers. I've got brit force so a few fireflies in the mix w plenty of regular shermans. Fortunately I flanked two panthers and two in another position decided to maneuver across my face and got hit w 500m side shots. Two more panthers getting flanked. Lost sherman on the right to panzershrec. And the assault goes in: These two fellers decided to retreat a couple minutes too late with a horde of tommies pouring out of the woods. Usain Bolt himself couldn't have sprinted to the town fast enough.

So these are actually Ukrainian soldiers forced to surrender due to being surrounded? That's absolutely heart breaking news.

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For sure, Carolus. I've read military history my whole life from a detached perspective. Ukraine war I really feel, I am totally not detached. It makes me sick -- emotionally, spiritually, every way. Each UKR death is like helplessly watching some serial mass murderer continually killing people and being helpless to stop him -- and that's exactly what is happening. On the devil's advocate stuff in some earlier posts today: Some guy, friend of my daughter (ex friend more accurately), stayed w us for a few weeks recently while he was in town doing clinicals for his phy therapy degree program. I was watching Davydov video and he said "well, there's two sides to this conflict", some dumb view he probably got from listening to Joe Rogan or some other garbage podcast. I said "yes, the serial mass murder-er side and the serial mass murder-ee side". This is the most black & white major war since WW2. No war is black & white completely but this is as close as it comes. Would anyone say "oh, well, the serial mass murder probably had some good reasons for killing those 12 women, we should think about his needs?" F no!

spamming? How is posting something on-subject and interesting spamming? Was good post.

exactly what I was thinking, you beat me to it. Putler will just move the goalposts like he's done the entire war. If they lost landbridge west of tokmak-melitopol line, for example, they'd just say doesn't matter because the real prize is Mariupol or some other nonsense. I hope that Putler is getting overly optimistic view. Like Hitler, seeing on map regiments moved to block the enemy and believing these are actually regiments, meaning fully staffed & equipped and supplied.

This is my great hope. Holes open up in RU line and maybe the command doesn't even know for a few hours. No communication so sends a couple guys to check it out and they go silent. Finally, hours later he learns the position is filled w UKR troops.

This is what we've been hoping for, that the RU defenses are increasingly weak. Those cluster munitions have to be quite a morale issue for RU. Risk of getting shreaded every time they are out of their ditches. I saw report today that UKR pushing again toward Vasylivka and also of advances around Urozhaine. My fear is that RU can rob from sections of the line to stop UKR at Robotyne. But UKR pressing in multiple areas should make that more difficult (I hope). KEVINKIN: I am assuming you just used your words poorly in that one phrase. So hopefully won't feel the need to get into debate w JonS and thereby derail the thread.

Great stuff Teufel. I've been wondering about night vision and how that might help UKR in the coming months. The leaves will be gone, losing cover for both attackers and defenders. The nights will become much longer. Both of these mean that thermal/night vision becomes an advantage. No foliage to hide under and lots of hours of very very scary darkness. Of course, RU has some night vision but not nearly as much. UKR will probably have enough to supply to infantry units that will work on infiltrating and eliminating RU strongpoints. Meanwhile the evidence mounts, as you showed in your post, that RU is having a lot of trouble plugging holes even in the most obvious crisis sector. I bet UKR high command was quietly pleased as RU burned up all it's mobile combat power & potential reserve forces in pointless attacks for the last 9 months.

The hilarious thing to me is that these rubes think Putin gives a flying F about them. "we need to report this to Putin, he would never stand for this!" uh huh.

I love this. Telling the suckers that 25 CAA is a reserve unit until Dec 1. Of course it is. "Don't worry comrade, you'll make a bunch of money to just train the rear for months, then be in reserve. War will soon be over due to our wonder weapons and you probably won't see any of it. What's that? Comrade, you know that Putin would never allow new soldiers to be sent to the front without months of training & preparation. He loves his soldiers, for he is the heart of the Motherland."

Looks like quite a battle Brille, lots of smoking wrecks.

Epic. Though I don't like seeing the russkies win one. And thanks for mentioning that we are all able to play CM and then also look at the UKR war thread. I'm currently in WW2 as the brits, taking a lovely town from the germans in Aug 44.